I understand that ich falls off the fish in the gravel or say a snail or coral. I think but don't know for sure putting any thing in your tank that had ich could spead it to another tank. right or wrong. My tank was doing good for months the only thing I added was corals, snails, hermits. I got ich. but can't say for sure where it came from.
Possible New Cure for Ick?
- Thread starter cratylus
- Start date
Rebels23
New member
Hmmm, that is interesting. Theoretically, if ick can attach itself to rocks or snail shells, and an invert is in the affected tank, it could be possible to bring it home that way?
If it so happens at that moment and time, you buy that invert that has the ick on it and you place it in your tank, you could spread it to your tank? I don't see why not. Anyone else have thoughts on this? I was just about to tear my tank down and quarantine everything to get rid of ick. I won't do this if this is the case.
A LFS owner once told me, don't feed brine shrimp, you introduce ick to your tank that way also. Thoughts?
Rebels23
If it so happens at that moment and time, you buy that invert that has the ick on it and you place it in your tank, you could spread it to your tank? I don't see why not. Anyone else have thoughts on this? I was just about to tear my tank down and quarantine everything to get rid of ick. I won't do this if this is the case.
A LFS owner once told me, don't feed brine shrimp, you introduce ick to your tank that way also. Thoughts?
Rebels23
Yes, it is possible to import ich by buying an invert, rock, or equipment from a tank in which the fish are infected. I did it once myself. I bought a couple of inverts out of a tank with fish. At the time the fish did not have any spots. A few days after I bought the inverts and put them in my tank the fish began to get white spots. I always quarantine my fish and hadnââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t bought any new ones for years so I had to figure out where it came from. I went back to the LFS where I bought the corals a few days earlier and found his tank now had a full-blown infection in it. I donââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t buy inverts out of tanks that contain fish any more, regardless of whether or not I can see spots on the fish.
Ich tomonts are not particular about what they attach to. It can be glass, rock, inverts, equipment, or most any hard surface. Then they can hatch after they have been moved. You donââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t need to tear down your tank. You can get rid of the ich in the tank by taking ALL the fish out for 30 days. The ich will die without its food. Meanwhile treat the fish in another tank with hyposalinity. If you have a fish only tank without live rock you can use hypo right in the display.
Importing ich on infected fish is not the only way to get it into your tank, but it is how the vast majority of infections spread. It is unusual to get ich in the display IF you quarantine all fish for a minimum of three weeks. I recommend that people go a step farther and treat all new boney reef fish with hyposalinity during the quarantine period. Hyposalinity is beneficial for new acquisitions for more than just combating ich.
It is possible to import ich with live brine shrimp but not likely. You would need to have perfect timing because the free swimming stage of ich can only survive a few hours without a fish. You can get ich from collecting natural seawater, but if you store it for at least 24 hours before you use it the free swimming ich would be dead.
Terry B
Ich tomonts are not particular about what they attach to. It can be glass, rock, inverts, equipment, or most any hard surface. Then they can hatch after they have been moved. You donââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t need to tear down your tank. You can get rid of the ich in the tank by taking ALL the fish out for 30 days. The ich will die without its food. Meanwhile treat the fish in another tank with hyposalinity. If you have a fish only tank without live rock you can use hypo right in the display.
Importing ich on infected fish is not the only way to get it into your tank, but it is how the vast majority of infections spread. It is unusual to get ich in the display IF you quarantine all fish for a minimum of three weeks. I recommend that people go a step farther and treat all new boney reef fish with hyposalinity during the quarantine period. Hyposalinity is beneficial for new acquisitions for more than just combating ich.
It is possible to import ich with live brine shrimp but not likely. You would need to have perfect timing because the free swimming stage of ich can only survive a few hours without a fish. You can get ich from collecting natural seawater, but if you store it for at least 24 hours before you use it the free swimming ich would be dead.
Terry B
Rebels23
New member
Thanks Terry B! See the thing is, I was going to take all my fish out of my main tank and put them in a quarantine tank for 30 days (I've done this before and have been successful). So my main tank would basically be "host-less" for 30 days also.
But now I am thinking, what is the point??? It just seems like an endless battle we can never win with ick. I know how many fish I can have, so I can quarantine up to then. But this probably won't be the last time I buy an invert (crab, snail....etc.). Or it won't be the last time I get a frag from someone that has been in a mixed tank with fish. There just seems like there are too many ways to introduce ick into the tank. And I really don't want to quarantine every single little thing I get for my main tank for 30 days. (At that rate, I can add 12 new hermit crabs in one year
)
I'd hate to quarantine my fish for 30 days, put them back in the main tank, then add an invert from an online store 3 months later, and introduce ick again. Then I have to catch the fish again (which is next to impossible), quarantine another 30 days.......blah blah blah.........
There must be an easier way to combat ick without always having to wait 30 days?????
I HATE ICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Rebels23
But now I am thinking, what is the point??? It just seems like an endless battle we can never win with ick. I know how many fish I can have, so I can quarantine up to then. But this probably won't be the last time I buy an invert (crab, snail....etc.). Or it won't be the last time I get a frag from someone that has been in a mixed tank with fish. There just seems like there are too many ways to introduce ick into the tank. And I really don't want to quarantine every single little thing I get for my main tank for 30 days. (At that rate, I can add 12 new hermit crabs in one year
)I'd hate to quarantine my fish for 30 days, put them back in the main tank, then add an invert from an online store 3 months later, and introduce ick again. Then I have to catch the fish again (which is next to impossible), quarantine another 30 days.......blah blah blah.........
There must be an easier way to combat ick without always having to wait 30 days?????
I HATE ICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Rebels23
Rebels23,
I think you are missing my main point. If you quarantine all fish for a minimum of three weeks and do not buy inverts from a tank that has fish in it the chance of getting ich in your display is small. Most people that just properly quarantine their fish never experience an outbreak of ich in their display tank. Since you already have it in your display the only sure fire way of getting rid of it is to leave the tank fishless for at least 30 days. Nine times out of ten, the reason people have ich outbreaks in their display is because they failed to properly quarantine their fish in the first place. The vast majority of infections are imported on infected fish and not a crab, etc.
Terry B
I think you are missing my main point. If you quarantine all fish for a minimum of three weeks and do not buy inverts from a tank that has fish in it the chance of getting ich in your display is small. Most people that just properly quarantine their fish never experience an outbreak of ich in their display tank. Since you already have it in your display the only sure fire way of getting rid of it is to leave the tank fishless for at least 30 days. Nine times out of ten, the reason people have ich outbreaks in their display is because they failed to properly quarantine their fish in the first place. The vast majority of infections are imported on infected fish and not a crab, etc.
Terry B
mmgm
Premium Member
Thats why I do not buy on-line. My LFS invert tank contains no fish and therefore no ich pararsites. For this reason I am at low to no risk for having an outbreak of ich in my tank when I purchase a snail, coral or any other invert. The same can be applied to LR, plants etc.. Additionally, I QT any fish purchased for 30 days. It may be a little more expensive, however well worth the effort to prevent ich.
Following some basic guidelines to prevent ich goes a long way with very little additional effort. You just have to get used to following the guidelines as a general practice to maintaining your aquarium.
Just my opinion....
Following some basic guidelines to prevent ich goes a long way with very little additional effort. You just have to get used to following the guidelines as a general practice to maintaining your aquarium.
Just my opinion....
ATJ
Premium Member
In my opinion and experience, even three weeks is not long enough and I advocate 6 weeks.TerryB said:
I had an experience last year where I quarantined for exactly 4 weeks. Six days later the two new fish and the existing fish (with the exception of the wrasses) all had spots. The existing fish were very healthy (which very much goes against the stress theory) but still became infected. After 3 months, some 6-8 cycles and 3 deaths, the remaining fish recovered. The fish that I believe introduced the "Ich", a Forcipiger, survived, as did a blue tang (Paracanthurus hepatus) which at times was very badly infected.
The reason I don't think 3 weeks is long enough is that it may only involve one cycle of the parasite. If the fish has only just been infected with a small number of parasites at the time you buy it. These may be two few for you to notice or they may be on the gills. The trophonts could stay on the fish for as long as 7 days before dropping off to encyst in the substrate of the quarantine tank. While reproduction is normally complete in under 10 days, it only has to go a day or so longer and at 3 weeks the fish has just been reinfected. On initial reinfection, it could be easy to miss the parasites before they have become engulfed.
I now always quarantine for at least 6 weeks and will go even longer if I can. I figure if you can quarantine for 3 weeks, an extra three weeks is easy and certainly can't hurt.
ATJ,
True, longer is safer and public aquaria generally quarantine for six weeks. I just think getting people to quarantine is difficult enough when its just for three weeks. I recommend routinely treating all new boney reef fish with hyposalinity therapy during the quarantine period. This is beneficial in several ways IMO. It also makes a three week quarantine period a pretty safe bet. I am not of the school that thinks you have to continue hypo for three weeks after the last spot is gone. I think three weeks total of hypo at the correct salinity is long enough to cure fish. Those public aquaria need a longer quarantine period because they don't do it in hypo. I suppose some public aquaria now quaratine in hypo but I am not aware of one. I would recommend it to them though.
Terry B
True, longer is safer and public aquaria generally quarantine for six weeks. I just think getting people to quarantine is difficult enough when its just for three weeks. I recommend routinely treating all new boney reef fish with hyposalinity therapy during the quarantine period. This is beneficial in several ways IMO. It also makes a three week quarantine period a pretty safe bet. I am not of the school that thinks you have to continue hypo for three weeks after the last spot is gone. I think three weeks total of hypo at the correct salinity is long enough to cure fish. Those public aquaria need a longer quarantine period because they don't do it in hypo. I suppose some public aquaria now quaratine in hypo but I am not aware of one. I would recommend it to them though.
Terry B
purpletanglvr
New member
my god. this thread sickens me. it goes from a guy trying something and it might possibly work, who knows. now it is turned into the Armageddon of fish life. he is trying this and wants to share the results.
i look at it like this. what if he did this experimental treatment and it appeared to work and his fish went on there happy little way with no signs of anything until their death in years to come and he DIDNT share his idea with anyone. What if everytime someone found a new idea or way to do something and they didnt share it with anyone. true, not all ideas work, and true some people take the word of one and put it to use as if it is a law. it would be interesting to put this test in action with people that do this sort of thing for a living.
i love this site for getting help and getting steered in the right direction time to time, but this is the stuff i cant stand about this site. everyone is an expert or an idiot, i see that all the time. if someone has an idea, 20 people jump them as if they are the experts. then we get into so many side topics the orginal topic is lost. just remember this, you so called experts are idiots time to time as well. im also sure if this method somehow starts being pressed out in a frozen food and sold in a store near you, you will buy it..... !!!! just my opinion, but i am wrong, i know.
i look at it like this. what if he did this experimental treatment and it appeared to work and his fish went on there happy little way with no signs of anything until their death in years to come and he DIDNT share his idea with anyone. What if everytime someone found a new idea or way to do something and they didnt share it with anyone. true, not all ideas work, and true some people take the word of one and put it to use as if it is a law. it would be interesting to put this test in action with people that do this sort of thing for a living.
i love this site for getting help and getting steered in the right direction time to time, but this is the stuff i cant stand about this site. everyone is an expert or an idiot, i see that all the time. if someone has an idea, 20 people jump them as if they are the experts. then we get into so many side topics the orginal topic is lost. just remember this, you so called experts are idiots time to time as well. im also sure if this method somehow starts being pressed out in a frozen food and sold in a store near you, you will buy it..... !!!! just my opinion, but i am wrong, i know.
justletmein
Premium Member
purpletanglvr said:
Yeah, I've been using a skimmer and DSB since the 1950's and didn't tell anyone. I'm glad someone else tried it too
justletmein
Premium Member
justletmein said:Yeah, I've been using a skimmer and DSB since the 1950's and didn't tell anyone. I'm glad someone else tried it too
Oh, I don't have any scientific data to show it's successful so I'm not going to release my results yet
ATJ
Premium Member
my god. this thread sickens me. it goes from a guy trying something and it might possibly work, who knows. now it is turned into the Armageddon of fish life. he is trying this and wants to share the results.
Let me make sure I understand what you are saying here...
You read through the entire thread, you disagree with some or all of the comments in it and so you posted your disagreement.
How is that different from the posts of the people you are complaining about?
i look at it like this. what if he did this experimental treatment and it appeared to work and his fish went on there happy little way with no signs of anything until their death in years to come and he DIDNT share his idea with anyone. What if everytime someone found a new idea or way to do something and they didnt share it with anyone. true, not all ideas work, and true some people take the word of one and put it to use as if it is a law. it would be interesting to put this test in action with people that do this sort of thing for a living.
I think if you carefully read back through the threads, most people are not rejecting the original idea. They are not chastising the original poster for posting. They are merely recommending caution.
Sure, it would be great if ginger does work as a cure. Certainly, it should be further investigated. However, it is not a good idea to just drop existing (proven) methods just because this one might work.
If someone suggested that ginger was a possible new cure for HIV-AIDS and shared their results of how it cleared it up for them. If some other people then came along and said "Woo Hoo! I no longer have to wear a condom when I pick up girls in bars." And someone else says: "Outstanding! I can go back to sharing needles with the people I meet on the street." Would you sit back and say nothing?
i love this site for getting help and getting steered in the right direction time to time, but this is the stuff i cant stand about this site. everyone is an expert or an idiot, i see that all the time. if someone has an idea, 20 people jump them as if they are the experts. then we get into so many side topics the orginal topic is lost. just remember this, you so called experts are idiots time to time as well. im also sure if this method somehow starts being pressed out in a frozen food and sold in a store near you, you will buy it..... !!!! just my opinion, but i am wrong, i know.
Again... if you are reading a thread and you see something with which you disagree, won't you make some kind of comment expressing your opinion? Or would you hold your tongue for fear of being accused of jumping on them as if you were an expert?
purpletanglvr
New member
this is the part where i cant decide if i would comment or not...if i disagree, i should comment because i want it to be known that i disagree. but, what if im wrong?? hense the delima. but i see it on the flip side, if no one commented, we wouldnt have a forum would we......... why is the sky blue?? why are we here?? i see most of your points ATJ and i see alot of others as well. point ive learned, there is no right answer
melev
Well-known member
I'm still reading this thread, and support the idea of searching for new methods that work.
Several times in this thread I've read the comment that others were worried everyone would "jump on this cure" acting like it "is" the cure.
Because of the way humans are, I bet some would state it as a cure. But most will not. They'll say "I read a thread about a guy trying Ginger.... you might try that and see if it works" which implies they don't have any idea, but it could be worth pursuing. If it turns out to be a pollutant and causes problems in their tanks, they'll be sure to post those results as well as a warning to others.
Bottom line is this. There is a proven method. It works. Pulling the fish out and putting them in quarantine for 6 weeks at hyposalinity.
And there is always the possibility something else will work someday, whenever we figure it out.
Several times in this thread I've read the comment that others were worried everyone would "jump on this cure" acting like it "is" the cure.
Because of the way humans are, I bet some would state it as a cure. But most will not. They'll say "I read a thread about a guy trying Ginger.... you might try that and see if it works" which implies they don't have any idea, but it could be worth pursuing. If it turns out to be a pollutant and causes problems in their tanks, they'll be sure to post those results as well as a warning to others.
Bottom line is this. There is a proven method. It works. Pulling the fish out and putting them in quarantine for 6 weeks at hyposalinity.
And there is always the possibility something else will work someday, whenever we figure it out.
"Bottom line is this. There is a proven method. It works. Pulling the fish out and putting them in quarantine for 6 weeks at hyposalinity."
Only problem is that in an large tank that is established with lots of rock work it can be next to impossible to catch one of these suckers. I had a fish that I just had to watch waste away with fin rot because I couldn't catch him. The more I tried the more distrusting it became and it got to the point where the fish would be spooked when I just approached the tank. It was sooo frustrating to just watch the fella waste away because I couldnt catch him :sad1:
We really need an "in tank" method to treat ich and other parasites.
Pesonally I'm a big believer in garlic, I have seen it's results first hand on a Purple Tang that couldnt kick ich until I started adding garlic. The ich went away I stopped adding garlic and he has been ich free since
Only problem is that in an large tank that is established with lots of rock work it can be next to impossible to catch one of these suckers. I had a fish that I just had to watch waste away with fin rot because I couldn't catch him. The more I tried the more distrusting it became and it got to the point where the fish would be spooked when I just approached the tank. It was sooo frustrating to just watch the fella waste away because I couldnt catch him :sad1:
We really need an "in tank" method to treat ich and other parasites.
Pesonally I'm a big believer in garlic, I have seen it's results first hand on a Purple Tang that couldnt kick ich until I started adding garlic. The ich went away I stopped adding garlic and he has been ich free since
Thales
Active member
I hear what you are saying, however I think human nature is the reverse of what you discribe. If you browse some of the other boards the idea that ginger cures ich has already spread. In those threads, when someone points out that it has not been shown to cure ich, that person gets jumped on as being closed minded. People want to believe in easy fixes.
ATJ
Premium Member
If people quarantined all their new fish for 6 weeks before adding them to the main tank, "Ich" outbreaks a large tank would be very, very rare. If all new fish were treated with hyposalinity for 3-4 weeks before being added to the new tank and people refused to buy invertebrates and live rock from tanks including fish, "Ich" outbreaks in the main tank would be nearly impossible.porky said:
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ATJ
Premium Member
I'm not sure that we need to be the ones to figure it out. "Ich" is a major problem in macroculture facilities and there are commercial incentives to find methods of control. The Japanese seem to be at the forefront of research and while I wouldn't bet the farm on these ideas yet, there has been some good work done in the last few years by a couple of different groups of authors.melev said:
Hirazawa et al have found that caprylic acid (a medium-chain fatty acid) administered oraly had an antiparasitic effect on C. irritans. It wasn't a cure and fish still died, but the caprylic acid did reduce the number of throphonts found on the fish.
Kakuta et al have reported improvements in resistance to C. irritans in fish fed with bovine lactoferrin. Unfortunately, both of their papers are in Japanese and I can only rely on their citing in English papers.
saltycurofaseadog
Member
wow! It's been a while since I've read this post. A lot of critics...(thats good... 
),and a lot of believers...(thats good... ). But come on people...don't jump on somebody with both feet when something new is being tried.After all, every tank is an experiment of nature. People are constantly looking for ways to make an aquarium as healthy and natural as possible. Just 15 or 20 years ago we were using undergravel filters in our systems. When people try new things or experiment, breakthroughs very often occur. Thank you. stepping off the soapbox.....
),and a lot of believers...(thats good... ). But come on people...don't jump on somebody with both feet when something new is being tried.After all, every tank is an experiment of nature. People are constantly looking for ways to make an aquarium as healthy and natural as possible. Just 15 or 20 years ago we were using undergravel filters in our systems. When people try new things or experiment, breakthroughs very often occur. Thank you. stepping off the soapbox.....
