Possible New Cure for Ick?

cratylus said:
UPDATE from the Starter of this Thread...

In my opinion, it's only a matter of time before somebody out there performs a rigorous "scientific" study and determines scientifically that ginger does work. At that point, all the board naysayers will jump on the bandwagon and proclaim how they knew all along that ginger really worked but they were too afraid to admit it for fear of being ridiculed on the message boards here.
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If and when that scientifc study is conducted tried and true, replicated, proven and documented you bet your balls people will start gravitating toward that since it is so much easier than the current way to treat your fish. BUT it has not been done. Additionally it's not that people are bandwagoners but more importantly it is people following scientific FACT. None of which supports your theory of yet other than your experience and an LFS, and we know how reliable and trustworthy they are to get sound and knowledgable information about this hobby right? lmao



cratylus said:

In the meantime, the self-proclaimed "experts" and board naysayers will continue to pat themselves on their backs for how "intelligent" and "faithful to the hobby" they are. They also will continue to spout their vitriolic rantings of how much damage I am doing to this hobby for talking about an "unproven" treatment.

C'est la vie!
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Sadly you do not understand our intentions. It is not to berate you nor belittle you nor to make you look silly with your misinformation and unguided accusations and insults (you do a fine enough job of that on your own), but rather this is the most important thing if you take nothing else from my post.

WE CARE ABOUT OUR ANIMALS!

So we naysayers provide the BEST conditions and use SCIENTIFCALLY PROVEN methods to care for them when they are sick. If you don't care about your pets then that is your business. For me and my house I will use the best care I know and use the resources available to me to make the best and MOST INFORMED decision for my fish. Good luck to you and especially your fish.
 
I believe this hobby would be far from where it is today without people who took a chance and tried something new. I think it should be encouraged and praised. At the same time, I think it is important to have people who are more conservative that will try to balance the 'runaway' enthusiam that a new idea sometimes brings and remind people, especially newbies, that there are usually proven techniques that should be used.

I would like to thank cratylus for his attempt to try something new whatever the outcome. And even more, I would like to thank him for taking the abuse (if you want to call it that, I am sure he would) after posting it here. You probably didn't see what was coming when you posted. In retrospect, perhaps the title of the thread should not have included the word 'cure'. Although I don't know if that would have helped much.

I think the hobby can only be served by individuals sharing their experiences. I don't know if ginger has any affect at all on fish, negative or positive. But one thing I do know is that a lot of the techniques that are used in this hobby today probably started with an average hobbiest trying something new and did not come straight out of the lab. I hope that the curiosity created about ginger will encourage someone to conduct a more rigorous study.

Greg
 
Lets try and keep the insults and mudslinging out of this. Such things put a thread on the verge of getting closed. Something I would like to avoid, but if my hand is forced...

So please stick to discussing the merits of experimental treatments and the choice to use or not. No more flames.
 
I have had many fish die from the Ick problem and I for one will give it a try the next time my tank comes down with ICk. It certainly is worth a try !! Why not?? People also swore that Garlic was a witches cure, but many fish have survived where they use to die without it. I might try a mix. of both. What can I lose??
 
meme1 said:
I have had many fish die from the Ick problem and I for one will give it a try the next time my tank comes down with ICk. It certainly is worth a try !! Why not?? People also swore that Garlic was a witches cure, but many fish have survived where they use to die without it. I might try a mix. of both. What can I lose??
Click to expand...

The jury is still out as to the usefulness of garlic as a teatement against ich. Its just that lots of people say it works, not that it does or doesn't.
 
I think it is important to remember as stated that we would not be where we are in this hobby without certain brave individuals taking a chance and stepping out of the box to try something new that we later adopted as the "best method". In my opinion cratylus has done nothing wrong. No more than any of the pioneers in the annals of aquarium history have. What would have happened if Norbert Tunze had not decided to stick a modified toy pump into his aquarium one-day? Individuals like cratylus are needed in this hobby but at the same time they can expect to get harassed and ridiculed from those who claim to be experts, try not to take it to seriously :) You obviously are on to something just look at all the discussion you have caused and thatââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s what it takes, discussion not rants and attacks, but clear discussion and inspiration to the rest of us to say, "why not try it?" Personally I will try this not because I think it's going to work 100% but because if there is a chance that it will work it would be more damaging to ignore the anecdotal evidence that has been claimed here. IMO this is one of the most original and useful threads I have seen on RC and I thank you for stepping up to make it public.
 
Yes we have to be opened to new ideas !!
We would still be in the stone age if our ancesters had not done experiments.
We need opened minds in this hobby. I love it when someone comes up with a idea that at least will not harm our animals !!!
I have had to many fish die from this desease.
 
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

cratylus
This thread reminds me of a good many Political and Militia and Anti-Government news groups that I have read in the past. It seems that that are those in this world that love to twist peoples words into what ever meaning that best benefits them and makes them look more intelligent. There are still those out there that not only does a good job of the latter but will also make others feel that they have been somehow singled out to be attacked or insulted. I for one are new to this hobby and have only been a part of the Reef Central family for only a few weeks but I for one will say that I could not find anything in your post dated, 12/30/2004 05:07 AM, and titled, ââ"šÂ¬Ã…"œUPDATE from the Starter of this Thread...ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ that contained anything that would be even at the least bit construed as either insulting, incorrect conclusions, attacking, misinformation or unguided accusations. To me you have only, over time, expressed your opinions and feelings on what you believe to have been the cure for your fish from that terrible condition that we call ââ"šÂ¬Ã…"œICKââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ and have, over time, been the target for all stated above from those that would disagree with your opinions and feelings. You did not mention names and/or user names in this last post. You only rebuked those that have attacked you personally. They themselves know who they are and because they have no life they choose to attack yours. Everyone here has the right to their own opinions, including you, but they also have the right to hear about new un-tested things that people like yourself have tried and find that, at least for you, have worked. No one has the right to suggest that you have in fact, some how, insulted or come to incorrect conclusions or attacked anyone or even given misinformation or stated unguided accusations when they themselves seem guilty of the same nor by any case that you even did in any of the post, that I have seen, to this YOUR!!!! thread. Just remember that when one stated that the earth was in fact round, I bet there were those then that gave out worse than you have received. Also it seems that there are those still yet that will not believe anything unless it was first reported on the evening news.
In any case, cratylus, I applaud you and what your accomplishment seems to have been and that my friend is, at least at this point and time, rid yourself from your tanks infestation of ick, or at least deter it to some point.
This post was not meant nor designed to either attack, insult, belittle, defame and/or accuse anyone but if it is to be so taken then my suggestion is for those who do should seek out professional help. Just remember that it was once said that, ââ"šÂ¬Ã…"œYou should search out all things and keep that which is good.ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ In the same breath one could say, ââ"šÂ¬Ã…"œIf you donââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t have anything nice to say then you should keep it to yourself.ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚

NOW, I am sure that I will probably be attacked as well for what I have posted here but I just want to let those that may do the bidding know that I am prepared because I for one have a thick skin.

Let it beginââ"šÂ¬Ã‚¦Ã¢â"šÂ¬Ã‚¦Ã¢â"šÂ¬Ã‚¦Ã¢â"šÂ¬Ã‚¦Ã¢â"šÂ¬Ã‚¦Ã¢â"šÂ¬Ã‚¦..
 
What Wmam said.

To say Cratylus attacked and insulted people is a little over the top. I think some may be a little paranoid....

What I can say as a fact is that due to the huge number of aquaria all over the world, and the variety of people caring for them, many of the innovations have started as anecdotal evidence, something somebody tried and it worked.
 
And there's me thinking that having a fish-reef tank is peacefull, relaxing, and stress-releasing!
Oh well, back to the fishing and motorcycles.:uzi:
chill all
John:D
 
I am very glad to see more folks defending our brave friend cratylus. I found his last post quite entertaining. Some people just need to be put in their place sometimes. It's a common problem on discussion boards to see folks who feel the need to remind the rest of us that they are a legend in their own mind. They inevitably form a following, since they often do indeed have the correct facts or advice for those who seek it...most of the time. Maybe billsreef has a good point in suggesting closing this thread, since it has evolved from a hobbyist sharing an idea, into a urinating contest to see who can get in the best dig. I for one am guilty I guess, but I couldn't stand it any more, and decided to stir the pot a little. I'm glad I did, as it has perhaps brought more supporters to the table. It's a fact of life that some people are closed minded, and need lots of proof that something works before they are brave enough, or feel it's responsible to try it themselves. Others are willing to try something new, and since there have been NO reports that ginger has been proven to harm any fish thus far, they shouldn't be intimidated to think it will. So if this thread does get closed C'est la vie indeed, the true "pioneers" here can always start another.

Sorry, showing very little restraint today, but I gotta mention that garlic has worked for me too. :)
 
Don't fret Cratylus, I'm a believer that ma nature is a better doctor than Mr. Yuck, the chemistry geek every time. Garlic and now ginger are part of my buddies regular diet (not daily cuz I don't feed daily) and all seem happy. Naysayers are just that! I can say this cuz I'm perfect! Really! Just ask me, I'll be glad to tell you LOLOLOL
 
Don't see why some people seem to want the thread closed. However, that will be eventually determined by the perpetrators themselves.

All that's really needed is a "let's work together on this" attitude.

For my part, I have in the past been guilty of being a skeptical type, and this attitude was confirmed to me by products such as Marc Weiss, which I wasted money on.
However since then, I have found myself dismissively skeptical of some ideas that have turned out to be good, so in the end an open mind should be maintained.
 
I don't want to see it closed either, but I won't be surprised if it does. I'm with wasp...Can't we all just...get along?
 
Well, my question is being that it was stated that 1/4 tsp. was added to 3 tbsp. of a home made mash of food, can we say it was the ginger or maybe the chemical reactions of all the above? Reason I am asking is I wonder if you can just add 1/4 tsp. to 3 tbsp. of any kind of food or will we need the exact recipe of what Cratylus made? As has been stated before that allicin is released from the garlic clove when it is crushed, maybe other chemicals are released when this mash along with the ginger is pureed in the food processor which commences some sort of chemical reaction which in turn develops some kind of medicine that does kill ick? Who knows but has anyone had success just with the ginger or with other types of food or with a different amount of?
 
Thanks Bomber.

Do you know more????????

Can this chemical mixed with others that lets say is in this so called mash of home made food that Cratylus made make or cause some sort of chemical reaction that might even make the concoction stronger or more viable in killing ick?
 
Through my research ( mind you that this is very little ) I haven't found that Garlic has that much showing that it is that much of a anti-parisite but many say it works and there are papers on the fact that the allicin in garlic does have effect so I wonder since it seems that ginger shows more scientific progress against parasites what would happen if you mixed the two together? I wonder how the different chemicals in each would react? Looks like the ginger does show some active role against parasites but I wonder about how it would react to the Cryptocaryon irritans as well as the effect of the chemicals of both ginger and garlic when they come in contact with aquarium water with all its additives and so forth? I just wonder what all the reactions are of all of the above. Wish I had listen more in Chem. Class. LOL
 
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