Was this place close to the ocean? I've heard of aquariums pumping seawater into outdoor ponds in order to keep things balanced and fresh. Its a really good idea, but not possible for 99% of people.
Possible outdoor Saltwater pond theory (NEW)
- Thread starter Saberjnl
- Start date
Was this place close to the ocean? I've heard of aquariums pumping seawater into outdoor ponds in order to keep things balanced and fresh. Its a really good idea, but not possible for 99% of people.
nogascans
Member
Nope, this place is a Sea World Park and is located in the heart of Orlando, Florida. Roughly 57 miles to Ponce Inlet on south end of Daytona Beach (Ocean). They definitely do all their water prep on site. And just to add to the bio load, remember that they have a number (limited) of daily "swimmers" donning masks and snorkels and dropping who knows what into water column. They also have some sharks glassed off from main reef but you can still snorkel right by. All the "corals" are faux of course.
I looked around and found this video on Youtube regarding the initial setup:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_b8bUjvmJjY
Sincerely,
David
nogascans
Member
Here's one more video. I didn't take many pictures while we were there, but this is a good overview:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7ylX6EmKlY
Sincerely,
David
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7ylX6EmKlY
Sincerely,
David
If you did it, I would go with AquaticEngineer's idea of a hot tub. I would maybe keep it on a screened-in porch if you have one - protect it from any leaf/twig debris, and help keep most of the rain out of it. Also a safer place to store equipment. It could definitely be done, but outdoor ponds are much harder than just getting a $150 Intex pool and running it in your basement
karimwassef
Active member
I'm working on a greenhouse reef...
<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/0_zpsmiwinvou.png.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/0_zpsmiwinvou.png" border="0" alt=" photo 0_zpsmiwinvou.png"/></a>
not quite outdoor...
I also worked out the shadow effects over the months and at different hours - to be sure I'd be getting enough sunlight for coral growth
<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/Animation_zpsetmdy30e.gif.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/Animation_zpsetmdy30e.gif" border="0" alt=" photo Animation_zpsetmdy30e.gif"/></a>
<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/0_zpsmiwinvou.png.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/0_zpsmiwinvou.png" border="0" alt=" photo 0_zpsmiwinvou.png"/></a>
not quite outdoor...
I also worked out the shadow effects over the months and at different hours - to be sure I'd be getting enough sunlight for coral growth
<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/Animation_zpsetmdy30e.gif.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/Animation_zpsetmdy30e.gif" border="0" alt=" photo Animation_zpsetmdy30e.gif"/></a>
That design is pretty sweet, keep us updated.
Although not exactly what I was thinking as an outdoor "pond" still more unconventional than an indoor. Kinda takes the greenhouse approach.
But just a thought, so could an auto topoff system solve a lot of issues with an outdoor pond? I mean say you had a covering over it to prevent rain, had it set up so not many debris could blow in, and had a large sump hidden from the elements (in a shed), plus an auto top off system, Wouldn't these virtually control any factors that may affect the ponds balance of salinity and temp? I like the idea of having a large sump to make up more water volume. That would make swings much more difficult to happen. With this the pond could be outside of a greenhouse, with minimal "housing" around it.
Although not exactly what I was thinking as an outdoor "pond" still more unconventional than an indoor. Kinda takes the greenhouse approach.
But just a thought, so could an auto topoff system solve a lot of issues with an outdoor pond? I mean say you had a covering over it to prevent rain, had it set up so not many debris could blow in, and had a large sump hidden from the elements (in a shed), plus an auto top off system, Wouldn't these virtually control any factors that may affect the ponds balance of salinity and temp? I like the idea of having a large sump to make up more water volume. That would make swings much more difficult to happen. With this the pond could be outside of a greenhouse, with minimal "housing" around it.
karimwassef
Active member
As long as you could have an awning or other covering that goes out over the tank during rain, thunderstorms, sleet, snow, hail, hurricane or tornado - you should be fine. Might also want to elevate the walls enough to support some degree of flash flooding.
I worry a lot.`
I worry a lot.`
mcozad829
Premium Member
I have an outdoor goldfish pond, only about 300 gallons or so that is right by my front door, It has a waterfall and I enjoy the sound and glancing at the fish as I walk by. That being said the reason I enjoy it is because I literally spend less than a minute a day on maintenance, I feed the goldfish thats it. I like it like this because the amount of time I spend working on it is comparable to the amount of time I enjoy watching it, for me the outdoor water feature is more of an ambient piece than a show piece. Now this is just my opinion but if I had to put the amount of time necessary into a saltwater pond to keep it nice compared to the amount of time I'd be standing in my driveway looking at it, id probably fill it back in because it would be more of a chore than its worth.
Not trying to change anyones opinion just explaining why I personally would not spend the money to set up a saltwater pond. But I do like having the simple goldfish pond... adds to the landscape
Not trying to change anyones opinion just explaining why I personally would not spend the money to set up a saltwater pond. But I do like having the simple goldfish pond... adds to the landscape
I have an outdoor goldfish pond, only about 300 gallons or so that is right by my front door, It has a waterfall and I enjoy the sound and glancing at the fish as I walk by. That being said the reason I enjoy it is because I literally spend less than a minute a day on maintenance, I feed the goldfish thats it. I like it like this because the amount of time I spend working on it is comparable to the amount of time I enjoy watching it, for me the outdoor water feature is more of an ambient piece than a show piece. Now this is just my opinion but if I had to put the amount of time necessary into a saltwater pond to keep it nice compared to the amount of time I'd be standing in my driveway looking at it, id probably fill it back in because it would be more of a chore than its worth.
Not trying to change anyones opinion just explaining why I personally would not spend the money to set up a saltwater pond. But I do like having the simple goldfish pond... adds to the landscape
I understand that completely. I own a small koi pond. But I believe using a temperate saltwater system over a tropical system would be MUCH less maintenance and stress on the owner and more enjoying backyard tidepool.
karimwassef
Active member
I don't think the temperature is the concern. If the temperature was the key variable, then reef keepers from Hawaii to Indonesia and Fiji to Australia would have no issues keeping reef ponds, or even saltwater FOWLR ponds.
I'm in TX and I braved an outdoor pond about 6 years ago. Temperature was a big deal but not the only control. I slowly ended up building a removable greenhouse structure around it. And that eventually became permanent.
Freshwater animals can handle a lot. Saltwater animals can't. Even in nature, there's very few saltwater lakes and no wild saltwater ponds. If nature can't make one- it's really hard for humans.
I'm in TX and I braved an outdoor pond about 6 years ago. Temperature was a big deal but not the only control. I slowly ended up building a removable greenhouse structure around it. And that eventually became permanent.
Freshwater animals can handle a lot. Saltwater animals can't. Even in nature, there's very few saltwater lakes and no wild saltwater ponds. If nature can't make one- it's really hard for humans.
Not trying to be redundant, but nature's example would be tidepools and that's why I chose that biotope for this theory. Tropical system is too delicate, I get that. Temperate tidepools are hardy and in nature withstand extreme changes. That's why I think this could work.
karimwassef
Active member
tidepools are connected to the oceans, especially in case of flooding or storms. They're in the vicinity of the saltwater source. There are no tidepools miles inland, but there are plenty of freshwater ponds away from main waterways.
I'm a big supporter of experimenting to learn and then share that learning - so I think it's great if you want to try it.
I would make provisions for natural disasters if I were to do it.
I'm a big supporter of experimenting to learn and then share that learning - so I think it's great if you want to try it.
I would make provisions for natural disasters if I were to do it.
AquaticEngineer
New member
I think I'm gonna build one now just to prove it can be done.
AquaticEngineer
New member
Maybe I'll start small and just convert one of those whiskey barrel 3 tiered fountains into a patio tidepool first
I've gone through this idea almost fully to completion many times
Its easier for me though since I run a temperate/coldwater livestock supply business
A few things to key in on though if you decide to push forward.
1) Evaporation will be minimal despite what people may say. I actually have more evaporation on my large holding systems in the winter than I do in the summer because that is the only time of year that the air around the tanks gets below the water temperature. Water will only evaporate into the surrounding air when the water temperature is above the air temperature.
2) Rain. Biggest issue for me (I live in Oregon) to overcome an outdoor coldwater marine pond is the amount of rain I get. You would very likely have to have it either under a covered patio, or with some sort glass roof/arbor, etc to prevent massive decreases in salinity when it rains.
3) Check out an old hot tub. You may laugh at first, but thing about it. My eventual plan is to use an old hot tub that someone is giving away because the heating element went out on it. They are already insulated, water tight, plumbed with jets for returns, you just need to spray foam or faux rock the inside with texture and loop a chiller into the plumbing where the heating element use to be. I'm planning to put mine next recessed into deck and build a covering with sky lights above it for light.
I know you are completely wrong on water temperature not being able to get below air temperature. First you need to know humidity or more specifically dew point of the air. I operated a 10K gallon system in a greenhouse in Austin, Tx during 110 degree summers and was able to maintain 80.0 degrees. Florida fish growers easily maintain their systems 20 degrees below ambient air temperatures using evaporative cooling. For every pound of water evaporated, Thermodynamics 101 says 1000 BTU of cooling will take place. During those hot Austin summers, my 10K system regularly evaporated 100 gallons per day:
1000BTU/lb times 8.34lb/gal times 100G for a total of 834,000BTU.
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
That is simply not true by any stretch of science or the imagination.
The temperature (read energy) differential contributes to the evaporation rate, but cold water certainly evaporates into warm air. Evaporation will occur until the dew point in the surrounding air is met. Eevaporation rates will significantlynincrease with air movement. The moving air quickly cycles dryer air molecules past the water surface, driving evaporation.
You evaporate more water in the winter mostly because the cold winter air is dryer and has more capacity to hold water. Then delta t contributes but not nearly as much as the humidity difference.
