Possible velvet?

[jaybfresh]

I received a flasher wrasse from DD on Wednesday. He has yet to eat and barely moves. He's been tucked along the bottom edge since I put him in QT.

Today his breathing is labored and there's a welt like spot above his eye. Hard to get a picture in his current position, but does this sound like velvet?

 

[Deinonych]

Can you post a photo?

 

[alprazo]

If you even think velvet, start to treat. Then wait for someone to tell you that it's not.

 

[snorvich]

If you even think velvet, start to treat. Then wait for someone to tell you that it's not.

Exactly.

 

[jaybfresh]

I didn't wait... started cupramine yesterday. I plan to ramp up to the correct dosage over 4 days.

 

[ThRoewer]

Actually, these days, if you even think about buying a fish, first go and buy the proper medications against Cryptocaryon (ich), Amyloodinium (velvet) and Brooklynelly (brook). Ideally also get a broadband antibiotic.

Next I would strongly recommend buying a good book on fish diseases.
Noga: Fish Disease: Diagnosis and Treatment is good but probably not the best for a beginner and pricy.
I personally like Bassleer: Diseases in Marine Aquarium Fish as it focusses on saltwater fish diseases and is budget priced.
The internet and this forum are also good sources of information (though some filtering will be required.

If you have not given up on reef fish at this point your next step should be to set up and cycle a quarantine tank of appropriate size for largest fish you plan to buy.

Only after you have your medical cabinet stacked, educated yourself on the most likely fish diseases and have a quarantine tank set up you should go and actually go to buy a fish.

 

[jaybfresh]

Actually, these days, if you even think about buying a fish, first go and buy the proper medications against Cryptocaryon (ich), Amyloodinium (velvet) and Brooklynelly (brook). Ideally also get a broadband antibiotic.

Next I would strongly recommend buying a good book on fish diseases.
Noga: Fish Disease: Diagnosis and Treatment is good but probably not the best for a beginner and pricy.
I personally like Bassleer: Diseases in Marine Aquarium Fish as it focusses on saltwater fish diseases and is budget priced.
The internet and this forum are also good sources of information (though some filtering will be required.

If you have not given up on reef fish at this point your next step should be to set up and cycle a quarantine tank of appropriate size for largest fish you plan to buy.

Only after you have your medical cabinet stacked, educated yourself on the most likely fish diseases and have a quarantine tank set up you should go and actually go to buy a fish.

Fine advice but I'm not sure it applies in this situation. I've been lucky to avoid velvet so I'm not comfortable identifying it... Though without a picture I know nobody can give much input

 

[ThRoewer]

Avoiding velvet should be your primary goal. But that requires being able to spot it on a fish in a store.

Best way to learn about fish diseases is to spend lots of time at fish stores. Over time you will see them all there and hopefully learn to spot them.
At a minimum I would expect someone to learn to distinguish an overall healthy from a clearly sick fish.

I don't think I ever had a fish with velvet and hope to keep it that way I the future.

 

[jaybfresh]

Avoiding velvet should be your primary goal. But that requires being able to spot it on a fish in a store.

Best way to learn about fish diseases is to spend lots of time at fish stores. Over time you will see them all there and hopefully learn to spot them.
At a minimum I would expect someone to learn to distinguish an overall healthy from a clearly sick fish.

I don't think I ever had a fish with velvet and hope to keep it that way I the future.

This fish was from Diver's Den. It appeared healthy to them, and appeared healthy (visually) upon arrival.

 

[ThRoewer]

Online stores, as good as they may be, always harbor a huge risk of getting a sick fish.
That's why I avoid buying fish from them. If I ever do I will expect the worst.

LA fish shipped from California come straight from Quality Marine.
DD also gets most of their fish from QM. As far as I know DD does a 2 week quarantine but that is not even close enough to be sure the fish is clean. Many diseases will show only after several weeks or even months. Velvet should come out sooner but ich can go unnoticed for months or even years.
Add to that the stress and possible oxygen depletion, hypothermia,... of the overnight shipping and the likelihood your fish is coming down with something is quite high.
So even DD fish need to go through the full quarantine protocol and can't be assumed clean upon arrival.

If I want something my store doesn't have regularly I just tell the manager to order it for me the next time he orders fish from QM.
First off, stores are repeat high volume customers and usually get the better choices.
Secondly, I'm not obliged to take the fish if it isn't healthy or I don't like the specimen.

 

[jaybfresh]

I get everything you're saying but my choices weren't for lack of education, and if you read the initial post you'll see the fish is and has been in QT.

 

[ThRoewer]

I'm sorry if it sounded like it, but this wasn't particularly directed at you. Many read these threads and in too many cases people think because DD has a high reputation and does some quarantine they can dump the fish straight into their DT.

From what I've read from your initial post I am not yet convinced your fish has actually velvet. It could also be brook or something bacterial.

 

[jaybfresh]

I tried to snap a picture but it doesn't look like the resolution carried over. You can vaguely see the discolored spot above the eye. He finally nibbled at some rods food.

 

[Deinonych]

Online stores, as good as they may be, always harbor a huge risk of getting a sick fish.
That's why I avoid buying fish from them. If I ever do I will expect the worst.

LA fish shipped from California come straight from Quality Marine.
DD also gets most of their fish from QM. As far as I know DD does a 2 week quarantine but that is not even close enough to be sure the fish is clean. Many diseases will show only after several weeks or even months. Velvet should come out sooner but ich can go unnoticed for months or even years.
Add to that the stress and possible oxygen depletion, hypothermia,... of the overnight shipping and the likelihood your fish is coming down with something is quite high.
So even DD fish need to go through the full quarantine protocol and can't be assumed clean upon arrival.

If I want something my store doesn't have regularly I just tell the manager to order it for me the next time he orders fish from QM.
First off, stores are repeat high volume customers and usually get the better choices.
Secondly, I'm not obliged to take the fish if it isn't healthy or I don't like the specimen.

I don't think there is any more risk buying online than in a LFS. The fish have to get to the LFS the same way they get to the end user directly (i.e. overnight shipping). Plus, the reputable online retailers have health guarantees of 14 days or more. None of the LFS in my area offers that.

Agree that all fish should go through a full quarantine, even if they come from Diver's Den. I consider what DD provides as more of an extended conditioning than a full quarantine.

 

[snorvich]

I don't think there is any more risk buying online than in a LFS. The fish have to get to the LFS the same way they get to the end user directly (i.e. overnight shipping). Plus, the reputable online retailers have health guarantees of 14 days or more. None of the LFS in my area offers that.

Agree that all fish should go through a full quarantine, even if they come from Diver's Den. I consider what DD provides as more of an extended conditioning than a full quarantine.

I agree. Any source that runs copper in their system can mask parasites on the fish provided. That is why a minimum of 30 days quarantine is essential no matter what the source.

 

[jaybfresh]

Does this give any better clues? I cannot catch him in the right position to get a good photo. This patch on/above the eye is so far the only one he has, and his appetite is greatly improved after the initial does of cupramine.

 

[ThRoewer]

This looks more like a Uronema marinum infection.

 

[Deinonych]

this looks more like a uronema marinum infection.

+1

 

[jaybfresh]

I won't have access to formalin until tomorrow at the earliest, unless Walmart sells something with formalin as an ingredient. So should I peform a freshwater dip tonight? Should I continue ramping up cupramine?

 

[ThRoewer]

Freshwater baths are better than nothing.
Formalin/malachite green or malachite green alone are effective HT treatments.
You can also give the fish 45 min methylene blue baths once a day.

Chloroquine phosphate should also be effective.

I would also get an antibiotic since uronema is usually accompanied by secondary bacterial infections.

BTW: Uronema is an opportunistic parasite that can survive indefinitely without a fish. That means fallow won't work to get it out of your system. So try to keep it out of your tank (if it isn't already in there).