Potbelly Seahorse thoughts

L

luvabunny

New member
I am considering setting up a new tank for 2-3 potbelly seahorses. This is the species that is on display at the Jenks Aquarium. As far as I know, no one else in Okla has them.

My problem is that this is going to require alot more in the way of plumbing, etc than I know anything about, so I came to you all for help.

They need about a 30"-36" high tank. Is there a normally (not specially) made tank that fits this description? Remember, I live in a mobile home, so weight will be an issue. I would like to not go over about 75g, but I don't know of anything regularly made that will accomodate the height. Also, keep in mind there will have to be a sump under it, so the weight of that will also be a factor.
If I will have to go special made, do you have any preferences on where I should start? It will need to be reef ready unless someone locally can help me do that. I'm not into notching, cutting, grinding glass, etc.

Also, it will need a chiller. I am assuming this will go into the sump or fuge(actually I don't really know what the difference is.) I know there are some DIY chillers to be found. Does anyone have a preference on any of them? Does anyone actually run a chiller with their tank that I could come and visually see how it works? This tank will probably be in my bedroom, so it will have to be quiet. Are chillers and overflows very loud?

I am unsure at this point whether the babies are benthic or pelagic, but there is a possibility that another, smaller tank may need to be connected to the chiller as well. I don't have a clue how to go about this.

Apparently, most inverts don't do well at the temp required for these horses (about 60-65F) Is there a site, or anyplace I can get information on cold water inverts, corals and macros?

This actual cumulation of this idea is well down the line, but I need to get the knowledge first, set up the tank, and then get the horses. They will be shipped from Australia, and I really don't want to have to do this more than once, so I want everything perfect before the little beasties actually arrive.

Gary, I'm sure you have some experience with setups like this.
Travis, I know you have been making those fake rocks.
Doug, I know you set up a tank with the shelves, etc permanently attached on the back. I would like to tap all of you for knowledge on how you like it, how you did it, what you would do differently, etc. I think I want this to start out as a sterile tank, using the fake rocks and dead sand, and let it become live without the possibility of parasites or disease. I can dip the macros and most inverts to kill anything they may bring with them.

Also, does anyone have an "in" with anyone at the Jenks Aquarium who would be interested in corresponding with me about how they keep their potbellies? I tried asking several of the "keepers" while I was there, but none had more than the basic answers. Since they appear to be successfully keeping them, I would like to find out how they are doing so. They also had a ton of babies in the display, and I am really interested in finding out how to raise them.

I know there is a bunch of knowledge out there, so I'm asking advice. I also know there is no absolute right or wrong way, so I want to get advice from several people on what works for them and why before I make my final decision.

Thanks to everyone in advance! I'm looking forward on learning about all of this and getting started.
 
This is going to be a LONG reply from me. I have a fair amount of information and suggestions for you. Expect a reply from me soon, I have a little work I have to do first this morning ;) :D
 
Sounds like an AWESOME project... Please keep us updated. I don't have any answers for you. But I thought I might do a little research. Here are some links.

Here's a thread where a lady with the handle Izsabelle refers to a Potbelly Seahorse tank that she has or is setting up. You might PM her with some questions...
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=708309&highlight=Potbelly+Seahorse

For those interested, here are some links to pics and a little bit of info on them.

http://www.divegallery.com/seahorse_page6.htm
http://www.mbayaq.org/efc/living_species/default.asp?hOri=1&inhab=438

The second link is to the Monterey Bay Aquarium. You might give them a call and see if they can offer any more help.

lsl_est_m050.jpg


seahorse6.jpg
 
Thanks Paul,
I don't know if Iszabelle actually did the pots or not. She is an on again- off again poster both on the org and ReefCentral. If I can find her, I'll contact her.
I've actually seen both of the sites you listed. Read what there is to read. Thanks for listing them.
I'll be sure to keep everyone posted on updates. Like I said, this project is probably many, many months down the road, but I need to learn now, while I have the time and opportunity. Keeping the horses isn't really my biggest concern. Getting set up for them properly is. It is so much different than anything I've ever done. None of my currents tanks have even had a sump, so that will be an experience in itself.
 
Yeah - I assumed you'd probably ran into all of the above since it was just simple searches. ;)

Why don't you go all out and try to keep Sea Dragons?

(just kidding)
 
Sounds like you're jumping off the deep end April lol. I have never ran a chiller before, so i can't help you there. I have never heard of one to keep a tank temp of 65* though. Most of the research i have done on them leans toward cooling a tank by just a few degrees, not chilling one to that point. I'm sure there will be plenty of info coming on that subject though.

As far as my cement tank, i love it more every day. It is quite a project to buil, but well worth the effort. It will be the best seahorse tank you ever have. It give your fishes, or in your case horses, tons of hunting places. The tiny pods think they are safe in all of the nooks and crannies, but they're not lol. The walls of my tank are absolutly crawling with baby pods. My blue line pipefish is almost potbellied himself lol. Building one special as a horse tank will be a lot easier then trying to build shelves for corals. You can place hitching posts all over for them. I haven't had any issues with nitrate build up or anything else due to the cement or foam backing. There has been no cracking or breaking. The coraline algae grows on the cement very well, and if you decide after the fact, that you need a post added in a certain spot, you just make one, and stick it to the wall. One week later it looks like it was there all along. My only regret on my cement tank project is that i used too small of bulkheads on my overflow. I really can't imagine ever setting up another tank without doing this to it.
 
Re: Potbelly Seahorse thoughts

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7428149#post7428149 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by luvabunny
I am considering setting up a new tank for 2-3 potbelly seahorses. This is the species that is on display at the Jenks Aquarium. As far as I know, no one else in Okla has them.
Click to expand...

Your guess is as good as mine. I'll keep an eye out just in case

My problem is that this is going to require alot more in the way of plumbing, etc than I know anything about, so I came to you all for help.
Click to expand...

You couldn't have gone to a better place ;)

They need about a 30"-36" high tank. Is there a normally (not specially) made tank that fits this description? Remember, I live in a mobile home, so weight will be an issue. I would like to not go over about 75g, but I don't know of anything regularly made that will accomodate the height. Also, keep in mind there will have to be a sump under it, so the weight of that will also be a factor.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, a standard size tank that reaches that deep is probably going to be at the top range you want or far more You would have to go with something custom. FYI, when I reference tanks as "Standard" I look at www.glasscages.com I consider unconvential tanks from them as standard. Here is a list of tanks that fit the depth needed.

90g Tall - 36 x 18 x 31
<img src="http://glasscages.com/prodpics/90T.JPG" height=240 width=320>

115g - 48 x 18 x 31
<img src="http://glasscages.com/prodpics/115AqStdCnpy.jpg" width=240 height=320>

80g Cube (My favorite of all of them) - 24 x 25 x 31
<img src="http://glasscages.com/prodpics/90GalCube-stdcnpy-closed.jpg" width=320 height=240>

118g - 36 x 24 x 31
No Picture Available

150g Tall - 48 x 24 x 31
No Picture Available

125g Cube (My second favorite) - 30 x 30 x 31
<img src="http://glasscages.com/prodpics/30x30CubeOverflow.jpg" width=256 height=192>

If I will have to go special made, do you have any preferences on where I should start? It will need to be reef ready unless someone locally can help me do that. I'm not into notching, cutting, grinding glass, etc.
Click to expand...

Acrylic and Glass are options. Truthfully, I think Starphire is a waste of money. Acrylic is light but scrathes easily, but might be ideal for this. It's also drastically easier to drill. If you get something with 1/4" glass or less I can hand drill it. I'm sure there are some people on here with diamond bit hole saws that can cut thicker glass.

Also, it will need a chiller. I am assuming this will go into the sump or fuge(actually I don't really know what the difference is.) I know there are some DIY chillers to be found. Does anyone have a preference on any of them? Does anyone actually run a chiller with their tank that I could come and visually see how it works? This tank will probably be in my bedroom, so it will have to be quiet. Are chillers and overflows very loud?
Click to expand...

The chiller is actually a stand alone piece. It works similar to the radiator of a car. Water flows through it in some piping, gets cooled, and flows bach out. I don't know if I would trust a DIY Chiller, and you know I'm a big fan of DIY. ;) I'm not sure I know anyone with a chiller. I thought Slone had one at Exotic Aquatics, but I honestly couldn't tell you. I'll let everyone speak for themselves. As far as loudness goes, the overflow could potentially be the loudest. Personally, even the loudest tanks are still soothing to me :D

I am unsure at this point whether the babies are benthic or pelagic, but there is a possibility that another, smaller tank may need to be connected to the chiller as well. I don't have a clue how to go about this.
Click to expand...

This should be easily done. It might need to have a specialized stand depending on what your plumbing arrangements are.

Apparently, most inverts don't do well at the temp required for these horses (about 60-65F) Is there a site, or anyplace I can get information on cold water inverts, corals and macros?
Click to expand...

I'll keep a look around. I used to know of one, but I forgot it. The Oklahoma Aquarium and the Tulsa Zoo have artic displays, so they had to get it some how. I'll try to track this down.

This actual cumulation of this idea is well down the line, but I need to get the knowledge first, set up the tank, and then get the horses. They will be shipped from Australia, and I really don't want to have to do this more than once, so I want everything perfect before the little beasties actually arrive.
Click to expand...

I believe it. You have a hefty project on your hands, but one that could potentially blow everything out of the water. Of course, Reef Central will be one of the best places to look for ideas and knowledge. I'll also see if I can pull up some contact information from some RC Australians. They might be able to direct you to really good sources of information.

Gary, I'm sure you have some experience with setups like this.
Travis, I know you have been making those fake rocks.
Doug, I know you set up a tank with the shelves, etc permanently attached on the back. I would like to tap all of you for knowledge on how you like it, how you did it, what you would do differently, etc. I think I want this to start out as a sterile tank, using the fake rocks and dead sand, and let it become live without the possibility of parasites or disease. I can dip the macros and most inverts to kill anything they may bring with them.
Click to expand...

Personally speaking, I really love my rocks. Now that I have the mixture down, I would say that there isn't much I would do different. My current problem is finding ways to actually make it look more like real live rock and just not a lump. I would definitely look into doing a backdrop like Doug (dugg) did. You can also have the chance of sitting the tank on it's back and forming the rock to the tank. Personally, my rock mixture ends up pretty sturdy to form. You should be able to make various hitching posts. Also, you might want to think about cementing dead coral skeletons into the rock. A dead Acropora colony would make a GREAT hitching post and look natural once it accumulates more life. You could also get dead/base Tonga Branch rock pieces to cement. Just some ideas.

Also, does anyone have an "in" with anyone at the Jenks Aquarium who would be interested in corresponding with me about how they keep their potbellies? I tried asking several of the "keepers" while I was there, but none had more than the basic answers. Since they appear to be successfully keeping them, I would like to find out how they are doing so. They also had a ton of babies in the display, and I am really interested in finding out how to raise them.
Click to expand...

I'm not personally in with anyone there, but I know a few people that are closer than I am. Keckles is one of them. Reef Revolutions sponsors a tank there. They might be able to help you at least get contact information.

I know there is a bunch of knowledge out there, so I'm asking advice. I also know there is no absolute right or wrong way, so I want to get advice from several people on what works for them and why before I make my final decision.
Click to expand...

The perfect solution to a specialized tank. Get as many people's opinions and experiences and see what one works for you to provide the best possible environment for these guys. I'll have to get a hold of some Australians and see if they can ship you anything that is native to the seahorse's natural environment as long as it's not on the CITES list. Do you know the scientific name of these guys? Hippocampus ______?

Thanks to everyone in advance! I'm looking forward on learning about all of this and getting started.
Click to expand...

This is definitely going to go in the Oklahoma Aqauarium Society history books. Please, if you get the time, take lots of pictures and post a tank log. :thumbsup:
 
Paul, i will need to do some cleaning before i can take any current pics of my tank lol. It as been neglected pretty bad lately. I can almost see through the glass as we speak lol. I lost a lot of my corals when i had the PH monitor issues and the snow storm. It is coming around, but with all of my new found duties, i don't have much time to work on it any more. This being a Daddy bussiness is for 20 year olds not 40 year old folks like myself. My tank has pretty much been on the very back burner for about 3 months now. I lost most of my zoas, 1 clam, 1 xenia, and several mushrooms in the snow storm. Right now it is going through a cyano issue, due to not having done a water change since the PH issue. I have just been doing top offs, and adding calcium, and letting things run thier coarse. I am hoping it will all fall back in order soon. I just wiped the front glass down, i will try and post a pic later after it settles a bit.
 
Thanks Doug and Travis for your help. I will be on vacation during the holiday, so will probably be contacting you via PM and e-mail for further questions.

Doug, I really like the idea of your concrete tank - depending....on space it takes up in the tank, weight, etc.

Travis - the horses are called of all things - hippocampus abdominalis. Go figure. The ones I will be getting will be captive bred (CB) so I won't be mixing wild caught (WC) endemic fish, etc with them, however, if it is possible to get a cleaner crew from around the same area, with the same requirements, I would be interested.
Altho they are bred and raised in Australia, they are pre-shipped to the US and put thru customs and quarantine BEFORE I am allowed to purchase them, so they don't actually go from Oz to me.
The 90 tall looks interesting. I will go to the glasscages website and do some looking myself. Thanks for the link. I will also go to the OMAS forum and see if I can find keckles or Reef Revolutions. I figured I would eventually have to ask some of the Tulsa people for assistance with the Jenks people.
I'll also contact Sloan and see if he has any chillers up and running.

Again, thanks for all of the replies. It's a good place to start. I really appreciate all the help. Keep 'em coming!
 
i am pretty tight with a couple of people at the aquarium i could probably get you hooked up with them on the phone or something if you would like pm me with your phone #and i could pass it on to them.how hard is it to obtain this species??
 
Just PM keckles since he works at Reef Revolutions (He's probably read this already. He follows me ;) Just kidding). It's VERY funny how aptly named these sea horses are. I wonder if the discoverer gave them a Common Name before actually classifying them.

On the topic of Clean Up Crew, there are various available critters that are on the market that are actually NOT suited for reef tanks, but would do great in this tank specifically. Margarita Snails come to mind of course. There should be some corals that live in that water that should be able to survive if that is what you are looking for. In fact, there was a thread on the Reef Discussion forum about an Australian Diver/Reefer finding some Pocillipora species in ~65Ã"šÃ‚ºF Water. I'll dig it up for you in another post. He would be the guy to contact to see if he would be willing to collect and ship some natural stuff for the new environment that you are creating.

Also, I'm in the process of documenting the rock's initial and final weights out of my DIY Recipe. I have a rock that weighed 7.0 lbs (+/- .5lb) that is soaking at the moment. Theoretically, if you use a 4:1 to 3:1 ratio of Rock Salt to Portland cement an initial 12lb rock would weight about 3-4lbs for a final weight. So, if you put a 75lb rock wall on the back of your tank, it would have a final weight of 18.75-25lbs. That should tell you how light my rock weighs. Which is just another perk about it. :D I'm proud of my rock, if you can't tell
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7429184#post7429184 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by oddballs
i am pretty tight with a couple of people at the aquarium i could probably get you hooked up with them on the phone or something if you would like pm me with your phone #and i could pass it on to them.how hard is it to obtain this species??
Click to expand...

I knew someone would come through from OMAS. Oh, and Scott, CLEAN OUT YOUR PM BOX! ;) (Sent messages, too)
 
Here are a few current pics. April, as for the space taken up, it is almost nothing. 1/2 inch around the walls and floor. The weight didn't turn out to be an issue either. It is mostly just foam. There is really just a thin layer of cement.
100_1038.jpg

100_1039.jpg
 
Okay, I know I've asked this question a couple of times, but it just doesn't stick in my head. And I'm sure Arpil would like to know, too. What foam did you end up using?
 
1/2 inch upolstry foam. The soft stuff, like a spounge. It was glued to the tank with mod-podge craft glue to hold it in place until the cement set up. The glue is completely inert, and dissolves during the curing proccess. You could actually do it in panels that could be removed if you wanted to.
 
Oddballs - sent you a PM but your box is full.

Doug, I followed the thread where you began the tank but have lost track of it. Did you finish out on the tank in the thread too? Do you have a link?
 
Does the cement adhere to the glass at all? I would guess not. Theoretically, would you feel comfortable if the foam magically disappeared that the cement would hold it's shape and not fall over?
 
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