Potential Emergency situation -- need help!

N

Newreeflady

New member
First, thanks in advance for any advice.

I had a pair of ocellaris, one jumped. The other was fine. I added an ocellaris from DD and it presented with heavy breathing, high stress, etc. It died even after removal from the system. Established fish was fine. I recently purchased a little percula clown and after a short 10 day QT period, added it into a breeder net, and then allowed it to freely go in and leave the net. All was fine. Last night I pasted a picture of an ocellaris pair in the front of the tank, hoping that this would let my established fish know he should form a bond (I know, silly.) This morning my established black ocellaris had a white spot on his cheek, looks like trauma. He is also breathing somewhat heavily/pronounced with his mouth part opened and his gills wide spread. I did a water change. Other fish are fine. I just noticed that as he was hosting his frogspawn my Leopard Toby puffer took a peck at his side. Attacking the weak?

I am so flustered. I don't want to lose this fish, in fact, it is now my oldest fish and I don't know what I introduced to the system with that DD fish, but I feel like I'm in for a world of hurt here. Does anyone have any idea? I can't very well treat fish if I have no idea what for, and also is it possible that he just got stressed out from the new clown and then the picture, and that the toby puffer took advantage of that? What now?! :(

I have sequestered the Toby puffer in the breeder's net. I am thinking that I should move this fish to another system until this all blows over, in case he is just further stressing the fish. Or, maybe permanently? He has not until now shown aggression that I know of, but then again I am not around 24/7.

Thanks for any help!
Angela
 
Tobies are notorious nippers, which tends to be more problematic as they get larger. I think isolating it for now is a good plan.

You are sure that the new clown is not egtting the better of the old one? Usually some petty squabling may occur for a few days but does no serious damage and establishes a pecking order among the clowns.

Good luck
 
I don't want to cause any more stress at this hour. Lights are out so perhaps tomorrow if my camera talents allow I will be able to get some kind of picture. It just looks like physical trauma to me, not fuzzy or fungus looking or anything. It's also smallish, and could clearly have been from the toby puffer given his mouth size:/
 
I agree with Spartan: I wouldn't keep a Toby puffer with species like clowns, that aren't "darty", and could avoid the nipping that the Toby will most definitely attempt.
 
if it's not fuzzy, then disregard pic request. See above. I'll go back to reading theater scripts now. :rolleyes:
 
Spartan said:
Tobies are notorious nippers, which tends to be more problematic as they get larger. I think isolating it for now is a good plan.

You are sure that the new clown is not egtting the better of the old one? Usually some petty squabling may occur for a few days but does no serious damage and establishes a pecking order among the clowns.

Good luck
Click to expand...

Thing is, his fins have not been nipped, but his body.

I am sure it is not the smaller fish. That fish spends the whole day hiding at the net. The new fish is about 1" long, the other almost 3" long. There is no competition here.
 
Possibly the clown was trying to check out the Toby and pushed his luck a bit? Unfortunate scenario here. Hopefully the clown heals and recovers quickly. They usually do if all parameters are in check, and I'm sure yours are not an issue. Keep us updated on the plans for the Toby and how the clown is doing. I'm looking for a happy ending here.
 
Hi guys, update:

I spent all day moving my 20g to the bedroom, but now the toby is in the 20g. He was SO distressed in the breeding net, even though it was a double size (I put two together.)

My clownfish still has the marks, but there may be some connection after reading a bit... The marks around his mouth and the open mouth behavior may be from recently taking to the euphyllia (frogspawn), as it was suggested on WWM in several cases. However, there is no mistaking that the toby puffer pecked at his body right in front of my eyes. So, my conclusion is that the puffer was fine with the fish until it found a stressed fish that was weak and decided it was high time to get rid of it. :(

Today the clown is acting more normal, not breathing so rapidly or having his mouth opened. I'm hoping this will heal up soon and will keep up on water changes to be sure the water quality is in good order. I also added some "Stress Coat"... I know, I didn't like the idea of adding stuff, but it is supposed to help with wounds.

The baby clown is doing just fine, probably has been accepted more readily as the other clown was not on top of his game.

Thanks guys. I will keep you posted:)
Angela
 
Good to hear you agree on the sting. It is rapidly getting better, thankfully. Also, this little bout of stress I am certain has helped the introduction of the new clownfish. When the baby was first introduced in the breeding net, the established clown payed no mind. When I took out the breeding net, the established clown attacked the baby visciously. I put the breeding net back in to allow the baby to go in and out at his leisure. But, after the problems I saw with the established clown and the toby, upon removal of the toby I also removed the breeding net. The two clowns appear to have accepted each others' presence now, although they haven't yet buddied up. So, perhaps something good has come from all of this. Well, a couple of things, I'm glad I witnessed the toby attacking the clown. Also, interestingly it did so while the clown was laying on his frogspawn, so I think that told the toby that it was a good time to attack.

The toby puffer was a bit shy in the 20g. I noticed that this fish greatly benefits from a ditherfish, as I found out when he was QT'd initially. I decided to add a fish to the tank without QTing, (I know), but the 20g was my QT tank and now it belongs to the toby. Since I added the six-line only an hour ago, both are exploring the tank, and the toby seems much more confident. :)

Cheers,
Angela
 
I keep my blue spotted toby ( Canthigaster solandri) in a 65 gallon leather,xenia and mushroom tank with a yellow tang, flame angel, blue damsel and a blue chin trigger. Plenty of dithering but no nipping that I've seen. There are lots of caves and swim throughs ,so they can stay away from one another most of the time.
 
That sounds like a good mix. I'm lucky this is the smallest of the toby puffers or I wouldn't be able to keep him in a 20g.

I think the problem with the clownfish is that when they sometimes just lay down on their hosts. I didn't see this aggression when I had the clown pair, but then again at least one of them always looked out for the other. I always hear that clowns can take care of themselves, and they are not unheard of as tankmates for toby puffers... but, it seems to me like the toby will take advantage of any weakness in a fish, as will many fishes, actually. His sharp little teeth combined with this behavior seem like a bad combo with anything but semi-aggressives and/or very fast moving fish. Lesson learned. He's so darned cute, though... it's hard to believe he can be aggressive! :p
 
aquadonkey said:
Dither fish - nice, learned some new vocab today :)
Glad to hear everything is resolving positively Angela!
Click to expand...

I actually learned about the dither fish when I added a PJ cardinal to the QT with the Toby. Before this, the toby didn't eat, and only hid. As soon as the PJ was added the toby became very much an explorer, and started eating. I thought this was cool so did some research on the phenomenon, that is when I found the term "dither fish". I learned something, too. :)

Angela
 
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