Predation in Frag Tank

[SoFloReefer]

I have been losing some frags to predation with no obvious culprit. The tank is very sterile with no fish or inverts besides for a ton of Copepods and some Nudibranches. The Nudibranches are NOT the zoanthid eating variety and appear to show no interest in them. The copepods on the other hand, are all over the Zoanthids and Palythoas. The Copepods have gotten very large with no predators to keep them in check. I think that they have taken to eating weak Zoos because of a lack of food in the tank. I think I have two choices to decimate the Copepod population. I can introduce a Six line Wrasse. I am also under the impression that Interceptor medication is deadly to invertebrates. I am thinking of dosing the tank with this.
Any opinions and advice will be great.

 

[JMCAquarium]

I'm go natural and get a 6 line or dragonet myself never dose unless you have to

 

[Peter Eichler]

They're amphipods most likely and I use a pseudochromis in my frag tank to control them. They're active hunters, beautiful fish, very disease resistant, and often have great personalities, especially when you don't have to worry about them being bullies.

 

[MUCHO REEF]

"I can introduce a Six line Wrasse. I am also under the impression that Interceptor medication is deadly to invertebrates. I am thinking of dosing the tank with this.
Any opinions and advice will be great."

I believe in dosing meds as a first or a last resort depending upon the issue that is transpiring at that particular time. What I mean by that is this, if you had an Sps tank loaded with Red Bugs, Intercepter would be my first resort/choice for swift and immediate eradication. If I suspect that I have pods consuming my crop of zoanthids and palythoas, I'd use meds as a last resort. Why? This is where I feel education plays a major/significant role in sights such as RC. It's the reasons I'm not into names, prices, lineage and ID's, and I'm not knocking anyone whom is. My focus as a reefer is learning and sharing to prevent what you are experiencing and I'm very glad you've ask this question as it will help so many others who may experience this as well. In your situation, I would take a more proactive approach and purchase a natural predator for the pods. Keep in mind, pods are not necessarily bad as they play a vital role in every captive system. They can reproduce rapidly, again, this is what they are suppose to do. Ok I'm rambling, I'd choose to keep them at bay with a fish/predator as Peter suggests above. Before doing anything, purchase a red incandescent bulb and place it in a fixture. Turn the lights off in the room your tank is end and about 2 hours after your tank is completely dark, enter the dark room with your red incandescent lamp and closely watch and see if your pods are indeed the culprit. You could very well have a reef crab consuming them. I'm just not convinced yet that all pods are bad as opposed to specific types which may or may not consume polyps. I have seen amps attach sick, dead or dying polyps first hand, yet I have hundreds that I view at night that never go near my polyps.

Please take no offense, I was just painting a different picture to shed a different light on your situation, no pun intended. Best of luck and please share with us what you choose to do my friend.

Mucho Reef

 

[SoFloReefer]

I discovered the culprits are indeed Amphipods after a quick Google image search. Both my tanks are loaded with them. I have only lost Zoanthids and Palys that were in bad shape. For instance, I heavily fragged my Armor of God colony recently and the pods have gone to work on those in a big way. I am going to try to find a Pseudochromis locally but I wonder if my frag tank with 30 gallon and no live rock is a hospitable place for it. Be it I am in the process of upgrading to a 150 gallon tank (tank build here) ,I wonder if I should introduce the Pseudochromis now and solve the pod problem or wait a month and lose 2 - 3 frags (not major as I have 150 or so)

 

[SoFloReefer]

Mr. Eichler which Pseudochromis do you recommend?

 

[650-IS350]

wrasses are the best controllers of AMPIPODS. Especially if there aren't a lot of nook and cranies for the ampipods to hide in. But the best are any of the (LINED genus like the 4,6,12 line wrasses ) down side is you can't add any other wrasse type in your tank. another option is yellow or green coris. Leopards are active hunters too of the wrasse genus. I used to or still employ most of them in my tanks. I've lost tons of colonies to ampipod predation when people used to think it was a myth that ampipods COULD eat zoas.

 

[MUCHO REEF]

I truly believe it is a specific pod or pods which have this capacity. I removed every single fish from my tank in February 08, I watch my tank often day and night. Pods are everywhere and I haven't lost a polyp. This is the reason I believe that specific pods, not all, will consume polyps. I have literally tons of them swimming everywhere, most visible after dark and I think I've played it safe long enough, gonna put my wrasses back in the tank next week. Sorry for your loss Delsol.

Mucho Reef

 

[650-IS350]

Its mostly the large almost 2/3rd of a 1/2 " inch. They just started up on me again. I had to move 2 frags of my PPE's they ate 2-3 polyps. and some armageddons too. I move those frags up in the racks.

 

[capture]

im convinced that amphipods will eat when zoas are in a vulnerable, deficient state. I had a colony for almost two weeks and when I decided to give them a dip, they didn't feel like opening again. In that deficient state I could stare at the tank and watch them being eaten. Other than that I haven't had issues other then the common occurance of my colonies being annoyed now and then by a pod or two.

 

[Peter Eichler]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12854564#post12854564 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SoFloReefer
Mr. Eichler which Pseudochromis do you recommend?

Springeri are my favorite, but mainly just pick one you like. I'd stick with one of the captive bred Red Sea varieties such as Flavivertex, Springeri, Fridmani, or Aldabrensis. If you can put a couple small rocks in there I would just to give him a little place to call home.

I prefer Pseudochromis over a wrasse for a few reasons. For one, I LOVE Pseudochromis, I don't feel bad putting them in a bare bottom tank, and they seem to be just as effective at controlling pod populations.

As for the Amphipods that will eat zoanthids... Mucho and I differ in our beliefs. I can say for certain that the Amphipods that eat zoanthids are not specialized feeders and will thrive without them. I also don't think zoanthids are their food of choice and will often only go after them when other food sources are lacking. I've witnessed perfectly healthy colonies be swarmed and slowly consumed. I've also seen that consumption ceased within a day or two of a predator being added. The amphipods that do eat zoanthids also seem to place PE type polyps high up on their hitlist and it does seem there are several zoanthids that they'll ignore for the most part.

 

[MUCHO REEF]

I guess I wasn't very clear, I do agree that they are not specialized feeders, I just believe that some will consume polyps but not as their sole solitary source of food. Therefore I do believe they will survive with or without polyps. I think you and I agree that what is reef safe will quickly turn on a sick, dead, dying polyps or invert in captivity or in the wild. I still believe when I say ( specific ), there are some who have the capacity to consume polyps even when they are perfectly healthy. You know me, I have no problem with disagreements, as long as we can have lunch or dinner at the end of the day, LOL. You buying? LOL,LOL


Mucho Reef

 

[MUCHO REEF]

Good stuff from the past. Might help someone.

 

[mallorieGgator]

I don't believe amphipods are actually zoa eaters. I had so many in my display and they only irritated the zoas bc they were massive bugs. I have three wrasses in the tank (Lubbocks Fairy, McCosker's Flasher, and Possum Wrasse) so now I have no amphipods left and the zoas look great. I think if your tank can handle the bioload, a Fairy wrasse is a good choice (he was the one that did most of the dessimation lol).