"Pressurized" Aquarium

[MikeYQM]

Yeah, it might cost slightly more than a seperate system, but the only extra parts are a lid with an opening. What I wouldn't have to buy are heaters, skimmers, probes etc etc. if the outlet bulkhead is at the top of the tank, air backup shouldn't be an issue. A little air at the top wouldn't be an issue, as long as there's enough water pressure to overcome the outlet head pressure, that's all that's needed.

 

[MikeYQM]

I fail to see how a properly designed system WILL fail. This isn't the first time anyone looked at building a pressure vessel. Sure I could put a second sump in, but where's the challenge? As for failure, if it does fail, it wouldn't be the end of the world. My basement is porcelain tile on concrete or bare concrete, the floor is sloped towards my houses sump pit so water drains right out without damage. And really, only a few gals would drain from my sump and from the top if the tank above the outlet so there wouldn't be a catastrophic drainage.

For the deal, I'm thinking of a fairly simple 2 level opening. If the tank has a eurobrace, I can seal the top with a large piece of a acrylic with a seal and secured with many nylon bolts around the rim. A small sealed door could be added for routine maintenance that opens inward so the pressure actually helps seal the door. If have to stop the pump for maintenance and could use the trap door for routine things or remove the whole top for larger things.

 

[gbru316]

I fail to see how a properly designed system WILL fail. This isn't the first time anyone looked at building a pressure vessel. Sure I could put a second sump in, but where's the challenge? As for failure, if it does fail, it wouldn't be the end of the world. My basement is porcelain tile on concrete or bare concrete, the floor is sloped towards my houses sump pit so water drains right out without damage. And really, only a few gals would drain from my sump and from the top if the tank above the outlet so there wouldn't be a catastrophic drainage.

Because everything has it's limits. It will fail. Maybe not in a day, a week or a month, or even a year, but eventually, it will fail. And with this system, your sump will run dry affecting both tanks.

To ignore risk of failure is negligent, plain and simple. One must assume failure in the design process and modify their plans accordingly to both reduce the risk of failure and to minimize the damage done when failure occurs. Designing under "best case scenario" often leads to catastrophe.

The pressure required can be calculated. Each foot requires roughly 0.43 psi. Keep in mind our tanks were not designed for this added pressure.

We also aren't talking a small reactor here, we're talking a large glass (square)pressure vessel. The physics are somewhat different between the two. Cylinders are much better at distributing load than rectangles, and plastic is much more durable than glass.

 

[cakemanPA]

A thick acrylic cylinder with a submarine style hatch would handle the pressure and not necessarily fail. You could put in a bunch of fail safe sensors to keep the failure damage to a minimum. A large cube or rectangle would need to be ridiculously thick to handle the pressure.

 

[gbru316]

A thick acrylic cylinder with a submarine style hatch would handle the pressure and not necessarily fail. You could put in a bunch of fail safe sensors to keep the failure damage to a minimum. A large cube or rectangle would need to be ridiculously thick to handle the pressure.

You'd also have to ensure all plumbing, including joints and fittings, also handle the pressure.


And at this point, other methods would be much easier, simpler, and more cost-effective.

It's your time, money and materials, but as an engineer, this has "bad idea" written all over it.

 

[username in use]

You'd also have to ensure all plumbing, including joints and fittings, also handle the pressure.


And at this point, other methods would be much easier, simpler, and more cost-effective.

It's your time, money and materials, but as an engineer, this has "bad idea" written all over it.

I wouldn't be worried about standard pvc holding the pressure. I plumb pools where the pools are 10-15ft above the pumps and those are 1 1/2 - 2hp pumps pushing through standard Sch40 pvc and there are no problems. The real issue is the aquarium itself.

 

[Paul B]

I don't think I am visualizing this correctly because to me it seems simple.
Can you make the tanks and sump the same level and just run an overhead pipe to everything? I used to use a sump that was the same height as my tank so there was no issue of overflow or flood and now my tank is filled from a container that is the same height in a different room, the pipe goes over the ceiling.

 

[gbru316]

I wouldn't be worried about standard pvc holding the pressure. I plumb pools where the pools are 10-15ft above the pumps and those are 1 1/2 - 2hp pumps pushing through standard Sch40 pvc and there are no problems. The real issue is the aquarium itself.

Its not the PVC that can't hold the pressure, it's ensuring fittings are joined correctly. Simple as it may be, many don't know how to properly join PVC pipe.

Provided that he is using PVC (he mentions acrylic in his posts), the pressure shouldn't be a problem assuming it is joined correctly.

 

[Kawi9_cf]

I don't think I am visualizing this correctly because to me it seems simple.
Can you make the tanks and sump the same level and just run an overhead pipe to everything? I used to use a sump that was the same height as my tank so there was no issue of overflow or flood and now my tank is filled from a container that is the same height in a different room, the pipe goes over the ceiling.

Paul,

Did you run your drain over the ceiling or just the return?


To the op,

It would really help if you could take a picture of where you are wanting to put this in relation to your other tank.

 

[VSpeck]

Didnt see it discussed but can you go the other way around the room and avoid the door? If you just want to build a pressure vessel have at it I'll be subscribing to see how it goes but then again I don't have to help clean up the mess if it doesn't work:lol:

 

[Paul B]

Did you run your drain over the ceiling or just the return?

Now I Just run the top off water over the ceiling, but I used to run the supply and return that way. I don't use a sump but I had a smaller tank plumbed to this tank over the ceiling but the tops of both tanks had to be the same height.

 

[disc1]

Now I Just run the top off water over the ceiling, but I used to run the supply and return that way. I don't use a sump but I had a smaller tank plumbed to this tank over the ceiling but the tops of both tanks had to be the same height.

You mean running it like the U-tube on an overflow box? Or was there a pump pushing it?

The thing I wonder about is the pressure. How much higher are you pushing the water? How much pressure would it take? Is all of that pressure going to have any adverse effects on the water chemistry or the animals living in that tank?

 

[garydan]

have you thought about getting a diamond saw blade an cutting a slot in the concrete between the two tanks, and embedding the pipe in the floor? It's not that difficult to do, backbreaking physical work, but not actually very difficult to do. That sort of thing is done all the time when people want to improve basement drainage or put in a bathroom. You might need to replace some of the tile, that could be a problem if you can't find a match.

Your tank will be pressurized .44 psi/ft of vertical height, so about 4psi going over a 8 foot door. That may not sound like a lot, but that means that every square inch of the acrylic is being pushed by an extra 4lbs of force. I wouldn't worry about the lid leaking, i'd worry about the entire tank rupturing, they aren't engineered to be pressurized like that. You'd probably need to build a custom acrylic tank, double or triple the thickness of the acrylic. It seems a bit impractical and expensive, compared to just cutting a slot in the concrete. Bags of concrete are only a few dollars a piece, you can rent a concrete saw at home depot for 40-50 bucks for a few hours... You could probably even pay someone to do it for less than the cost of a custom acrylic tank.

Paul, I do like your approach too. I'm assuming you used a lifter pump or something to keep the overhead pipe in a syphon? If the syphon breaks, then the tank would overflow, right? Seems a bit risky.

 

[rovster]

Why not run the plumbing around the perimeter of the other room? Unless there's a second door, LOL!

 

[MikeYQM]

There is another door, about 100-150', heat pump and water heater. Ill try to get a photo later to help everyone understand the layout better. Thanks for the input.

 

[Paul B]

You mean running it like the U-tube on an overflow box? Or was there a pump pushing it?

Paul, I do like your approach too. I'm assuming you used a lifter pump or something to keep the overhead pipe in a syphon? If the syphon breaks, then the tank would overflow, right? Seems a bit risky.

Yes just a pipe over the door. The pump doesn't need to pump much preasure because I sucked out the air in the pipe before I turned on the pump. As long as both ends of the pipe are deep in the water the siphon will not break but I did have a float switch safety on the thing in case the water got to high in one tank, it would shut off the pump. I don't like floods.
Eventually some bubbles get caught in the pipe and they needed to be removed. I had a small valve on the highest part of the pipe to remove air. I didn't say it was the best system, just one way of doing it and it doesn't cost anything.