Prodibio

[zanclus]

I agree with melev, your tank looks great Duarte Conceicao. I am dosing 2 vials of BioDigest every two weeks in my 220gallon.(I have a total of 300gallons in my system) I have not had any ill effects,RTN, or any other problems. I think it is best to follow the manufacture's recommendations on dosage. I have seen nice polyp extention and colors seem to have deepened a bit.
I dose every 14 days :
2 BioDigest
6 BIOPTIM
1 Stronti+
1 Iodi+

I also dose every 7 days one day later in the week :
3 Reefboost

I do a 30% water change once a month the day before I dnse the majority of the Prodibio . My water parameter are as follows:
Ph 8.3
Temp 77F
Calcium 450ppm
Alk. 12.5 dKH
Phosphate 0
Nitrate less than 3 ppm
Mag. 1350 ppm

 

[melev]

I just tested my water last night.

Salinity - 1.026
pH - 8.2
Alk - 9.6 dKH
Ca - 470
Mag - 1380
Nitrate - 5
Phosphate - .03
Temp 79.8F
ORP - 402

My macro algae died back substantially, and two corals lost a lot of color, but my Alk was nearly 15 dKH last week. I turned off the CO2 for three days and did an 85g water change.

<b>zanclus</b>, if the BioDigest is rated for 250g per vial, why do you dose two? I was dosing three because I somehow forgot basic mathematics. I'm not dosing anything right now until those two sps (A. valida & A. secale) improve. Also, can you re-explain how you are dosing Reef Booster, because I don't quite understand.

Here is my A valida on 7/28:

It used to be much more colorful, but I think/hope/pray that I acted quickly enough to keep it around.

Here are a few more SPS shots from 7/30. This one was taken right before the last MH turned off, and I wanted to display the bright blue tips.

My A. nobilis looks freaking amazing, and I almost took out my camera to shoot some video of the polyp extension today.

 

[ROR]

Duarte Conceicao
Stick with what Prodibio is recommending, and you should not have any problems. Aparently, as long as you don't use more than 1 ampoule for less that 1000 ltr, there is no risk of overdose. The only problem could be starting to dose a dirty tank with lots of mulm etc. If your tank is dirty (which it doesn't look to be) I would be very careful, maybe start with a half dose of Bioptim.

My system is 310 ltr, and I dose 1 Biodigest and 2 Bioptim every 2 weeks, the day after my water change. I am just over 1 month into it and so far the results are a little underwelming, no real change at all. This I think is not that bad, better than a quick disaster, and Prodibio is supposed to work gently I think.

I didn't know Prodibio was recomending dosing Reefbooster 48 hours before Biodigest and Bioptim, the day after sounded good to me, but I have not been dosing Reefbooster regularly yet.

Rob

 

[clkwrk]

Marc the valida has AEFW bite marks I am sorry to say . I have had first hand experience.

 

[zanclus]

According to the directions Dose 1 vial of BioDigest for up to 1000 ltrs.(approx.250gals) I have a little over 300 gallons in my total system hense 2 vials. I have been dosing for almost 4 months now with no problems. As for the Reefbooster I dose 3 vials every week on sunday evening.s I dose all other products every 14 days sat. evenings. I do my water changes on Fridays once a month the day before I dose the BioDigest, BIOPTIM ,Stronti+, and Iodi+ . I also run a Carbon reactor along with a Phosphate reactor, 24/7 change them out every 14 days on fridays. I also keep my salinity at 35 PPM

 

[TryTheChi]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7859830#post7859830 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Duarte Conceicao
Greetings from the other side of Atlantic!

A little late but here I am to try the probiotic approach to reef keeping.

But after a few emails changed with the people from Probidio I have a few doubts witch I would like to clarify if possible.

Biodigest

The dosage size. I've got a 500 lt aquarium. The answer from Probidio regarding this it that I should dose the entire vial in the aquarium, since they recommend 1 vial to aquariums up to 1000 lt.

I've read a few posts here that try to relate the over dosage of Biodigest with some RTN cases.

So I’m a little confused about this subject. Any recommendations?

Activated Carbon

Most of the people run's carbon in a 24/7 basis as I do it actually without the probiotic products. From Prodibio I’ve got the following answer

"Change your carbon the week when you don't add BIOPTIM"

I change my carbon once a month. Do you guys think that the Probidio answer should be considered?

Storage

Where do you guys store your Probidio products?

Natural Sea Water

Does anyone use the probiotic approach with NSW? I didn't have in the past (the aquarium is 1 year and 3 months old) any case of hairy algae, cyano, diatom or other types.

Reefbooster and other products schedule

Dosing Reefbooster. From Probidio I’ve got the following

"After the water change wait one day or two before adding the products. I think it would be better to add REEF BOOSTER once and wait 48 h after to add the Bio digest and BIOPTIM "



Is anyone doing this? Or are you dosing all the products in the same day.

Can you help me making a schedule for the dosing of the products taking in consideration that I perform a 15 % water change on a week basis.

Days

1 - Water Change
2 -
3 - Biodigest / Bioptim
4
5
6 - ReefBooster
7
8- Water Change

Don't you think that leaving Reefbooster only 2 days in the system without a water change is a little waste? Should I start to do my water changes only 2 times / month or should I add the Reefbooster on the same day that BioDigest / Bioptim?

System Addiction

Does anyone have any idea about the degree of the addiction of an aquarium in this probiotic approach? I don't believe that the bacteria population start to decrease immediately, but in a mid-term timeline something should happen...

Finished my questions

I'll try to keep a log about this approach and try to make some photos to fulfill it.

Cheers!!

Hi Duarte - Greetings from England. - Nice tank.
The UK market is also not as developed as the US and Germany- and we percieve ourselves to get the sps that Germany and the US leave over Probably not true...hehe. I also have a 500ltr reef (net)

Some thoughts on your Qs:

1) Digest: A whole vial is fine IME. Others have had problems with ODing with tissue necrosis - but if your dkh is at nsw levels and steady I'm confident there is a low risk that you will experience problems.

2)Carbon: If its used passively - it wont rapidly adsrob the elements in TPIM therefore giving them time to be used by the bacs. Are you using 0.5 ltr of carbon? Monthly change out worked fine for me. If you wanted to be super cautious - you could take the bag of carbon out for 24 hrs. The thing with carbon is to make sure its super low in PO4 by leaving it to stand in RO/DI water for a couple of days before using it and changing the RO/DI water 2-3 times, this will get any PO4 to leach out before going in the tank.

3)Storage: On a shelf. Prodi products dont need refigerating as they are not exposed to O2 until opened, and therefore dont biochemically react.

4)Natural see water: No experience.

5)Booster: I dosed same day as the other 2, but a few hours appart with Booster last. Also switched the skimmer off overnight. Booster is a fantastic product judging from the polip extention after dosing, but go easy until NO3 PO4 are very low.

6) System addiction: Medically, addicition is indicated when the withdrawal of a compound produces abrupt adverse effects in the metobolism, and/or pscyological functioning.

So no All that will happen is that the environment will gradually revert to to a different ballance. This may or may not result in higher nutrient levels, and if it does - then the consequences flow from that.

However, just like human diet we can withstand not having vitamins and minerals for protracted periods, but will slowly decline. If we arnt dosing reef booster - an alternative source needs to be added.

On dosing rates for 500ltrs suggest: Digest 1 vial every 2 weeks, TPIM 2 vials every 2 weeks, Booster, 1 vial each week, all after any water change.

Cheers

Simon

 

[TryTheChi]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7860283#post7860283 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by melev
I do know that I was overdosing BioDigest badly (3 vials in a 280g tank), and each time I'd lose one coral (fragment fortunately) within 48 hours.

Hey Marc

Great pics again. As far as I can see - the sum total of anecodotal experience todate points to the need to keep dkh very steady and a smidgin lower than 15 in the range of 6-8 (+20% if using high borate salts) when using probiotic methods. 3 Vials is PROBIOTIC

No idea what the reason for this is, and there maybe excections to this, but I thought I'd just offer that up

Cheers

Simon

 

[jake2045]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7861593#post7861593 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by clkwrk
Marc the valida has AEFW bite marks I am sorry to say . I have had first hand experience.

I would also agree with Clkwrk that the Valida has AEFWs, pull the coral and give it a dip with Lugols and a strong shake to see what falls off.

 

[melev]

Guess I will. Three people tonight have told me the same thing. I thought the coral was suffering from excessive alk and ca levels due to my recently re-set up Calcium Reactor.

Thanks for the input.

 

[greenfroggiespawn]

So arne't these like injection shots?

 

[Rossini]

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[Duarte Conceicao]

Duarte Conceicao, your tank looks really nice to me. I really can't answer a lot on this topic because I personally don't have a lot of experience nor comprehension. I do know that I was overdosing BioDigest badly (3 vials in a 280g tank), and each time I'd lose one coral (fragment fortunately) within 48 hours.

Melev anyway thanks for your input. It's also important that we know that maybe can exist a relation between overdosing this product and some RTN cases.

Stick with what Prodibio is recommending, and you should not have any problems. Apparently, as long as you don't use more than 1 ampoule for less that 1000 ltr, there is no risk of overdose. The only problem could be starting to dose a dirty tank with lots of mulm etc. If your tank is dirty (which it doesn't look to be) I would be very careful, maybe start with a half dose of Bioptim.

ROR thanks also for your input. In fact my tank doesn't have or had in the past any algae problems.

Generally speaking a good sand area is also a good area for the bacteria to live, I don't know where I have the highest concentration in the tank because I only use a small portion of sand in the front of the aquarium. So do you think if I dose 2 vials of Bioptim like recommend I will have any trouble regarding a very fast boom in the bacteria population?

I didn't know Prodibio was recommending dosing Reefbooster 48 hours before Biodigest and Bioptim, the day after sounded good to me, but I have not been dosing Reefbooster regularly yet.

ROR why is this? Do you have NO3 and PO4 high levels and you're trying to minimize them first?

Hi Duarte - Greetings from England. - Nice tank. The UK market is also not as developed as the US and Germany- and we perceive ourselves to get the sps that Germany and the US leave over Probably not true...hehe. I also have a 500ltr reef (net)

Hi Simon! A reefer from my side of the Atlantic and also in the same GMT zone :rollface: Indeed I believe that we here in Portugal can only get some leftovers from the biggest reef markets in the world. I love LPS corals, but can you imagine that not a single blastomussa, micromussa, acantastrea has been imported to here ever? At least trough the regular shops .... Some people have them because they pay fortunes in import them directly from Germany.

Answering some of your thoughts

1 - The dKh is a little higher than the NSW since I use a Ca reactor. In the place I collect the dkH is around 5-6 º and in my aquarium is 8-9.

2 - I run the carbon in a phosban reactor so it's very easy to control the usage. I'm using half of 0.5 lt of tunze activated carbon witch I’ve been told it has very little PO4, but your hint regarding the RO is very appreciated

5 - Regarding the dosage of Reefbooster. My PO4 are undetectable in a regular kit (unfortunally a colorimetric one here it's to expensive 70-80 â"šÂ¬ :mad2: even buy them online ...) and the NO3 levels are barely undetectable.

Thanks and best regards to all

 

[ROR]

Duarte Conceicao, I think 2 ampoules of Bioptim sounds very safe; I use 2 in my 310 ltr with no problems. My NO3 is 0.2 and PO4 is 0 with a Salifert test kit (if this means anything), but I am battling hair algae right now. I'm waiting until I get on top of it to start using Reefbooster regularly. I'm off to my LFS for some Trochus snail tonight, hope they help.

Rob

 

[cerreta]

Well, it's time for a brief update on my system of 6 weeks. I had some RTN / STN issues and still have a hair algae problem due to the newness of the tank at only 2.5 months old.

I was weary that the prodibio was the problem, but chalked it up to high water temp reaching 84-86 and fluctuating ALK. I have since adjusted the Ca reactor and got the alkalinity under control. I have also ordered a larger chiller to combat this AZ heat.

The good news is that the algae problem is finally getting under control. I had to move several corals out of the main display due to the overwhelming growth of algae aproaching the corals.

The other good news is that I really noticed coral colors today. A previously brownish digitata has gone purple and my lovely blue tort has grown 1/2" arms all of the place that radiates a brilliant aqua blue color. The A. nana, which has had some STN seems to have improved, but I notice that the color of the coral is very intense.

In my system I only dose Digest and Biptim. I use vodka as a carbon source and salifert products for AA, Iodine, Strontium, and other trace elements. I was close to giving up on the vodaka and Prodibio for that matter, but I think I am back in biz. I will have the pro camera again this weekend and try to take some pics of the model corals I posted a few pages back.

You should see them posted this weekend.

 

[robthorn]

hey cerreta do you think the extra addition of trace elements could have anything to do with your hair algea growth? I would think it would have iron and potassium and other algea feeding elements. bioptim is supposed to have elements if I am remembering correctly. maybe more than needed using 2 products. just a thought. of course the high temps can help growth also. maybe a combo.

 

[cerreta]

do you think the extra addition of trace elements could have anything to do with your hair algea growth?

No. Every time I have setup a system (third time) using this rock, I have had this bloom effect at startup. In fact, the nusiance algae came before dosing Prodibio. If anything I think the regime has greatly helped. It previously would take 6 months to a year to rid the algae. I am also using phosban to keep the PO4 very low, which seems to help too.

 

[Sudad]

Hi my Name is Sudad. I'm from Germany and I use these bacterias of Prodibio since 2004.

I'm very fascinated of the NO3-and PO4-Levels. During a short time I reached levels of 0 mg/l NO3 (Salifert) and 0,024 mg/l PO4 (Merck)
But I must say, that in combination with a DSB (Deep Sand Bed), the bacterias work extremly more powerfull then only with liverock or crushed coral substrate. So you should be a little bit careful in a combination of DSB or Jaubert Systems.

I use for my 250 liter tank every 2 weeks 1/2 Biodigest and 1 Bioptim. Sometimes I use the Reefbooster too, but not regulary. For feeding I prefer DT's Phytoplancton and DT's Oister eggs and aminoacids (ReefStar).

For the daily feeding of the bacterias I use a german product called "Zeostart2" (www.korallenzucht.de). It maybe contains some organic carbonic sources - I don't realy know. It's a good combination to the Bioptim, which you use only one time in 2 weeks.

Another advantage of these bacterias from Prodibio is, that it holds your tank free of cyanos and dinoflagellates. Even some dangerous pathogenic bacterias like Ichtyo and Oedinium could be kept away from your tank.

So for me this product is a must in a modern reef-tank.

Many greetings!

Sudad

 

[robthorn]

cerreta , gotcha.

sudad welcome and thanks for the input. how much of the zeostart2 are you adding and when do you add it? morning or evening?

 

[Sudad]

Thank you!

I add Zeostart2 about 0,7-0,9 ml for my 250 Liter tank - it depends on, how many fishes you have in your tank. I add it every night. Even the bacterias I add them at night and during adding I let the skimmer off for one hour. I don't use ozon or UVC-bulb.

Greetings.

Sudad

 

[trueperc]

This has been on very informative thread and myself and thinking about starting up with the Prodibio Biodigest, not sure though as I know this was ask, but can you just use the Biodigest every two weeks and if you are already dosing say vodka and the salifert AA isn't this reallt the same as the BIOPTIM. I am just looking at costs and wondering would this be adding to much food. Thanks