Proof that Oceanic Salt is BAD!!!!

andy51289 said:
bergzy - I think my problem with the chaeto is that I didn't have the correct bulb over the fuge...that, and the fact that my skimmer is right beside the fuge causes the algae not to grow. Now for the main tank, I've been battling Sargassum for about 8 months now. I've been told that is should die off at about the 6 month mark, but has ceased to do so yet.. I also have some Lobophora that is a PITA, but I think it will eventually die off.

i have used this light with the most excellent result in chaeto growth.

normal_zzz.jpg


another change i did in which i saw explosive chaeto growth was upping the circulation in the fuge. 1500gph in an alternating turbulent flow for my 40g...jus' make sure it is not violent. the turbulent alternating flow tumbles the chaeto into a nice tight ball.

normal_ZZZ%20018.jpg


aside from the skimmer being beside the fuge...it may make a difference...it may not...i don't know if the skimmer can pull out that much nutrients in that the chaeto can not grow healthily (is that a word?;)).

try those two things...it may just help your chaeto out.

p.s. - i have ignored every comment about the 'slow flow concept for fuges is the right way' and took a. calfo's advice about the high flow in an alternating turbulent manner and have never looked back.
 
UPDATE

UPDATE

instant_ocean.jpg



Same conditions and set up using IO. The pump in the pic had been off for four hours prior to the pic. No contest with the Oceanic salt.
 
Not to be a wet towel but i see's me some brown algae in there....True not as much but its there and is obviously not just because of your salt mix that it was there. Looks like you had some nutrients in your salt mix that fueled it tho! You should mix it up and find out what the limiting one was. Silica, nitrates, or phosphates. Any comments on that?

Edit: that or you just didnt clean it :p
 
gatohoser said:
Not to be a wet towel but i see's me some brown algae in there....
I'm not so sure that's brown algae in the new pic. It looks like the blotchy pixelation and color shifts you get when you compress jpegs too much.
 
Yeah guys, I think maybe it's trick photography. Maybe Mojodeli is a employee of a well known Salt company. I wonder if he will get a life time supply of salt for talking bad about Oceanic? Maybe like Clark Griswold got for Christmas Jelly of the month Club.

It might even be a Alien baby infestation.

We could also check to see if he is using MAC OS photo editing software instead of a Windows OS based software. Then we could look deeper and see if there really is a deep hatred beween Steve Jobs and Bill Gates.
 
Hey Mojo,
So that's it huh? You've been trying to figure out what was up for months! Totally makes sense, hopefully you'll see a vast improvement once you start water changing with the new salt.

I can't say I've had problems with Oceanic but with all of the anectdotal evidence out there it seems suspicious at least. It certainly will make me think twice about purchasing Oceanic.

I know Mojo pretty well and he knows his tank pretty well - if he says he thinks it's the salt, I'll believe him. Those of you that have been around long enough and have enough experience to "know" your tank you can understand this.

Good luck

Brian
 
As I mentioned previously, both tests need to be done at the same time in the same location with the same conditions. Humidity, pollen and air quality issues among other things can vary dramatically on a day by day or hour by hour basis and this could have a huge effect on the test.

For example after it rains the air smells very different. What do you think that is? I don't know what it is myself, but it's obviously something, so maybe if it rained recently one of the tests was contaminated with something that the other was not? If somebodies tank can get nuked because the neighbor had their yard sprayed for weeds who knows what is in the air on a temporary basis that could be effecting this.

I'm not saying this is what happened, it's quite possibly that Oceanic salt is the cause of it, but the point is that we have no way to tell. In order for this test to really prove anything you need to test both salts at the same time in the same location under the same conditions (ie the same amount of heat/circulation with equipment coming from the same tank). This way any contamination that does occur is occuring with both tests and you can eliminate that as a possible factor.

As before, your results are certainly interesting but they don't prove anything, they just raise a lot of unanswered questions. This is coming from somebody who doesn't yet have a saltwater tank and has never purchased or used any brand of salt.
 
I don't know why some reefers have so much troudle with there salt i switch from IO to Oceanic Because my calcium and Mag was so low with the IO salt.
I use more than 7 buckets of 200G Oceanic salt with no problem yet :rolleyes:


QUOTE from a previews mojodeli's post about a salt that he had problems with some time a go. Apparently he has a bad luck with salts.

Quote :
Problems with marine mix salt?
Anyone have any problems with changing to the marine mix salt?

I made up about 25 gallons of new water yesterday afternoon. This evening I changed about 8-9 gallons out of my 125.

My bubble looks dead. All I see is the the white skeleton and no tissue. All of the other corals are closed but seem ok. Maybe things will be better in the morning but the bubble usually has its tentacles out and about at night.
Quote:
 
Some of you guys are sick to research back that far. What's the point? To see if I am scaming salt companies? :-)

FYI - Completely different tank not to mention the many more documented problems with Marine Mix.
 
I dont think any1 denies it was the salt causing the brown slime at this point whoever was making those snotty sarcastic comments. I was just saying that you can still see the growth. Look at the heater and the wall of the tub.

MOJODELI ive directed these last 3 or 4 requests at you so ill put your name in hopes of a response : can you test for silica and phosphates in your oceanic mix to see what it tells you? And can u test for silicates and phosphates in ur RODI water too?
 
gatohoser said:
I dont think any1 denies it was the salt causing the brown slime at this point whoever was making those snotty sarcastic comments. I was just saying that you can still see the growth. Look at the heater and the wall of the tub.

MOJODELI ive directed these last 3 or 4 requests at you so ill put your name in hopes of a response : can you test for silica and phosphates in your oceanic mix to see what it tells you? And can u test for silicates and phosphates in ur RODI water too?

I don't have the bucket of oceanic anymore so I can't test that stuff.

I'll test my water sometime this week. The heater has coralline on it not diatoms. There is a small dusting of diatoms on the side but that is expected when you light an uncovered tub for two days.

Sorry if I missed your previous attempts. I haven't had the time to wade through all of the posts.
 
mojodeli, please don't think I am attacking your credibility, as I'm not. You experienced what you experienced. What I have done is to only question the conclusion. All is within the realm of possibilities including that the salt is bad.

It's really too bad that you threw the rest on the sidewalk (:D pretty funny) because i would have also suggested a new test where you could have set up several identical containers (like glass canning jars or something). If you could have treated all test containers the same, used the same batch of boiled RO water and maybe covered the tops etc a more conclusive test could have been performed.

The major question mark for me is that some people have reported absolutely no problems and others have had problems so i don't really know what to make of all this. Periodically, this same type of post has come up on IO too(which you can bet gets my attention since I use IO) and probably the rest of the commonly used salts.

Anyway, just to explain my perspective better. But I sure am not tempted to try it because of all this just in case.....:)
 
Different systems behave differently having recognized that, I am always testing different things to optimize my own. Regarding salts I use quite some, I make 50 gal water change per week on a system with 225 actual water volume with mostly SPS corals. I have found out that different salts have been formulated differently for different uses or to be mixed with different source of fresh water.
As an example Oceanic is supposed to be used for reef aquariums were Calcium and Magnesium are important unfortunately it seems to be formulated for a salinity of only 1.021 to 1.022 so if mixed to 1.025 to 1.027 full NSW strength chances are you will exceed the Calcium and Magnesium parameters. When Oceanic personnel were consulted in this regard they seemed rude and practically blamed me for mixing it at that high 1.025 salinity.

Another example is Crystal seas Marine Mix. This salt seems to be formulated to reach close to the parameters at 1.025 but assumes Tap water is being used so takes into account the starting hardness. Also because it assumes Tap water it includes dechlorinator in it's formulation.

Kent and Reef Crystals seem to be oriented toward reef use as it contains more trace supplements and somehow higher calcium and Magnesium than IO. If mixed to full NSW strength (1.026 to 1.027) these are the salts that mostly approach reef requirements although will fall a little short. The reason seems that the formulation is set not to risk much precipitation if mixed with tap water. Also the manufacturers (do not know why) recommend mixing to 1.023sg when in reality better parameters will be reached at full strength.

IO seems to be a general purpose salt which will be suitable for Fish Only mixed at 1.021 to 1.022. For reef at 1.025 1.026sg It achieves good alkalinity level but will need some Calcium and Magnesium supplementation.

In general solubility seem to have been a marketing blitz. Oceanic given the finely powder grind seems to be the one that dissolves faster but with enough agitation I have not really seen an advantage in one dissolving in 5 minutes and the other in 10 mainly if I consider that even when the salt is dissolved, the contained elements like Calcium Chloride, Carbonates, Bicarbonates, and Borates need at least 4 to 6 hours (with 24 Hrs) recommended for PH stabilization.

I have tried IO, Kent and Oceanic. With Oceanic I had some unexplainable algae bloom and had more difficult controlling my water parameters. Kent and IO would be my favorites. Kent has been the one I use the most and have been using long term basically I can control the end result of the mix, dissolves very well with no residue using RO/DI and is so consistent that I just add my present scoops of salt, and supplements and although I test for Salinity, Calcium, Alkalinity and Magnesium I have never had to correct the amounts. I have gone trough about 20 200 gal buckets of Kent and only once I had an issue of extremely high alkalinity like the issue IO had some time back. I contacted the distributor and within 20 minutes I got a call directly from Kent's Manager to give me the track number of a new bucket sent overnight and to provide me with a UPS account for me to send him some samples. Great service when you need it most.

Regarding my tests of the Oceanic. With all the hype about it I got three buckets to try it. I initially liked the Calcium and Magnesium Levels but not the alkalinity levels. At about the half of the second bucket I started noticing algae I had never seen before, nothing like diatoms but more like brown algae that I originally though it to be dinoflagelates but started by forming some hard spots (like coralline) that when left to grow turned hairy (pics to follow). I started suspecting the salt when I started getting brown stuff in my mixing tank so I started the serious testing. The following four batches of the mix were fully tested:

In the four batches RO/DI water tested undetectable for Ammonia, Nitrites, Nitrates, Phosphates or Silicates. (I use a 100 gpd Spectrapure system with 0.5 micron sediment, 0.5 carbon block, high rejection 98.5% TFC membrane, Silicate Buster DI resin cartridge and mixed bed electronic grade resin. Monitor set up to alarm at 0.3 ppm of TDS.
Mixed prepared in a 50 gal batches on Polyethylene graduated tank, mixed with a Magdrive 9.5, and aerated 48 hours using a linear diaphragm pump withewater LT15

The range I got from testing the Oceanic:
Ammonia Undetectable (LaMotte Salicilate test method)
Nitrite_N Undetectable (LaMotte)
Nitrate-N 1 to 3 ppm (LaMotte)
Silicates 0.5 to 1 PPM (Salifert double checked with Hach)
Phosphates 0.06 to 0.5 PPM (Hach)
Calcium 480-530 PPM (Salifert)
Alkalinity 140 to 165 PPM (LaMotte) (2.8 to 3.3 meq/lt)
Magnesium 1320 - 1480 (Salifert)
Iodine Not detectable (Salifert)
Salinity 1.025 Refractometer
Temperature 78.5 to 79.1 Lab glass thermometer
Water heated with two 350 watt Won Bros Digital Titanium heaters.
Water Mix Color: Light Brown
Precipitation: Minimal
Tank walls stained with brownish material relatively easy to wipe off with a towel once tank empty.
Tank was covered during mixing and aeration in dark room.

18470Brown_Algae.jpg


After those tests I decided to switch back to Kent's. For the switch the mixing tank was washed with vinegar, scrubbed clean with bleach filled with RO/DI water added bleach again and let recirculating for 48 hrs. Emptied and flushed twice with RO/DI again.

I tested the Kent's following six batches the same way and equipment used for the Oceanic Tests.
Ammonia Undetectable (LaMotte Salicilate test method)
Nitrite_N Undetectable (LaMotte)
Nitrate-N Undetectable(LaMotte)
Silicates Undetectable (Salifert double checked with Hach)
Phosphates Undetectable PPM (Hach)
Calcium 360 to 380 ppm(Salifert)
Alkalinity 175 to 180 PPM (LaMotte) (3.5 to 3.6 meq/lt)
Magnesium 1170 - 1190 (Salifert)
Iodine Not detectable (Salifert)
Salinity 1.025 Refractometer
Temperature 78.7 to 79.2 Lab glass thermometer
Water heated with two 350 watt Won Bros Digital Titanium heaters.
Water Mix Color: Clear transparent
Precipitation: small amount of small white granules
Tank was covered during mixing and aeration in dark room.

The algae started to diminish and after the fourth water change (about a month) it was completely gone.

Having trusted that the algae could have been just a cycle and or the Oceanic has been a bad batch I stubbornly (Price had something to do with it) I ordered a new batch of six more Oceanic buckets and started using it again.
To make a long story even longer the same algae returned after the second water change.
Switched back to Kent and gave away the remaining buckets of Oceanic never to see them again.
After eight months no signs of any algae.
Unfortunately with Kent I have to continue the Calcium and Magnesium buffering so no savings there.

So if Oceanic works for you, and I know some great systems that use it; stay with it as your system may react differently, if you start having chemistry stability or algae issues try something different and stay with whatever suits you best.
 
Wow your hard work is greatly appreciated! I was already going to avoid Oceanic because i had no reason to go to them and then the reports and now some good solid results. I aint touching it!

Thats good to hear about Kent! I will definitely look into switching to their salts.
 
salt is like cellphone companies... hate the one your using ,but wouldnt be any happier using a different one

a no win situation.
 
jdieck, now that is what I call proof. Thank you for taking the time to explain your results.
 
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