Proof that Oceanic Salt is BAD!!!!

gatohoser


Your right I am sorry:( It's just a issue I feel very strongly about since I still don't have my reef set back up due to a issue I had with Oceanic. Yes most are right, I can't blame it but it's the one thing I changed and from then on had the problem.

Like most are saying you really can't point the finger unless proper tests are done.

I really think Oceanic should be doing the R&D. IF indeed they know this thread exists they should deal with it in the proper fashion.

Also gatohoser, yes I was repetitive but there seems to be alot more that still keep saying this problem is due to "Poor Husbandry" I'm getting tired of hearing this.
 
arconom said:
It's pretty sad considering the top reef keepers feel the same way about Oceanic. It's Junk plain and simple!!

If the salt is nothing but junk, then why are so many people using it with no problems? You guys make up probably 1% of the total people using the salt.

When I originally said "bad husbandry," I should have said "other unknown factors." You can say that you guys are experienced reefers all you want, but what do you think it sounds like when you blame an algae problem on a bucket of salt? To me, that sounds pretty noob-ish.
 
wow i was just glancing along and found this i have used io for the longest time there was a deal on oceanic salt so i bought it. i'm almost done with the pail but when i started to use it brown alage. i couldn't figure out where it was coming from i changed all my filters on the ro. still brown now that i see this. time to throw out what i have and go back to io
 
i understand that you guys didnt have a problem with oceanic but many people did (including me) this is to much of a coincidence to blame it on other things (in most cases) this company is still new and with all new products things go wrong.

i think that everyone here is getting worked up about nothing. and oceanic should do there own tests to the product this hobby is to expensive and time consuming for a new company to play with our tanks.

not every batch is bad i had a very good batch but my second bucket is terrible
calcium was over 600 in the tank without adding calcium at all
alk went down to under 5 dkh
and i did get slime alge and hair alge

i havent had any alge in my tank unitil i got my second bucket of oceanic so the first one was great but in this hobby we need consistency in every product that we buy and that is the companys job to do.

ok so even if the slime alge was my fault (yes i use ro/di) then how do you explain the calcium being throug the roof and alk barley registering i tested the saltwater mix and got a cal reading over 650 and the alk 4 dkh.

if anybody wants me to send them a sample of this salt i still have some and i will ship it for free so you guys can do your own tests just to stop the fighting.

maybe there was one baaaad batch that came out and some of us got it but just like car companys oceanic should have called a recall i will not buy this salt again for a long time not to say that maybe in the future i wont give them a chance again just not in the neer future.
 
Yeah I finally had my calcium and alkalinity balanced out and then I did a sump clean-out which involved doing a 30% water change. My calcium ended up around 600 and alk was 1.19 meq/L. Sucks. I don't know whether to use what I have left of this or go ahead and switch to Tropic Marin.
 
Well .............. I haven't posted in a while so here it goes.........

I have stuck with the Oceanic mainly because I can't afford to buy a RO/DI at this point but I have tested my Cal. and Alk. for the past two weeks and have come up with 570 - 580 on the Cal. and about 22 to 25 on my Alk. using Salifert test kits. Now I was at one time using the two part B-Ionic and stopped and started using only the 1st part to raise my Alk. well it is through the roof as well and now I only do water changes every two weeks. I change out about 24 gal. on my 150. All of my corals which include LPS and SPS as well as alot of others are doing great as well as the fish I have with the exception of a newly aquired pipe organ that has yet to open up and have had it about 2 weeks. I have also tested for Nitrate which was around .05 and Phosphate which shows zero as well as Silicate that shows zero. I get a pretty heavy brown algae growth on the front and side glass if I don't clean every 2 to 3 days. Other than that theres no probs. On the other hand I have coraline algae popping up everywhere like wildfire.
 
I used IO for over 20 years and it worked fine. A few months ago I switched to Oceanic to help with low Mg. I just switched to TM Pro because I didn't like the brown film left in my Brute make up water container after water changes w/Oceanic. IO never left a brown film and neither does TM Pro. I never had slim algea in my reef from any salts.
 
The one thing nice about Oceanic is I've never had corraline for over a year with IO. Not even a drop. Switched to Oceanic and my tank is covered in it....but also got hair algae. At least it doesn't grow that bad but it's still a PITA
 
i understand that you guys didnt have a problem with oceanic but many people did (including me) this is to much of a coincidence to blame it on other things (in most cases) this company is still new and with all new products things go wrong.

The thing is really isn't. As has already been mentioned a lot if not most of this is a 'bandwagon' effect. One person a while back might have mistakenly blamed a switch to Oceanic for a problem that was actually unrelated. Somebody else also switched to Oceanic and also had an unrelated problem, but because of the timing and because somebody else had the same problem they assume they have the same problem and it must be Oceanic. Now anyone with any algae problem at all who happens to have or have used Oceanic blames it on the salt, and why not, so many other people have the same problem so it must be the cause.

The problem is, and this is what many of us are trying to point out, is that nearly every single person who has blamed Oceanic has no way to isolate the salt as the cause other than timing with a salt switch, which may or may not be a simple coincidence.

One theory of mine is that Oceanic does indeed cause minor but temporary algae, almost like a cycle in it's nature. Consider the possibility that Oceanic has extra nutrients and chemicals which other salts do not. If you were using another salt that did not have this you would not have any of the bacteria or other critters which consume either the chemicals or the algae that grows off of it. When you switch to Oceanic from another salt your tank has no mechanisms to counter this and a small amount of algae is grown. Now after a while, just like a cycle, the proper bacteria and critters will grow and you will no longer have problems since your system will develop a natural means to counter this. Perhaps this is why there are so few complaints from people who start with Oceanic but so many from people who switch from other salts? Has anyone actually stuck with Oceanic for a while and seen if it went away on it's own?

To be totally honest though, I disregard almost all of the complaints since they have absolutely no backing or evidence except coincidental timing at best. What concerns me most is the people using Oceanic without problems who then start to have problems after getting a new bucket of salt. Although it could still be bad timing it's a lot less likely in my opinion.
 
Silencer said:
The thing is really isn't. As has already been mentioned a lot if not most of this is a 'bandwagon' effect. One person a while back might have mistakenly blamed a switch to Oceanic for a problem that was actually unrelated. Somebody else also switched to Oceanic and also had an unrelated problem, but because of the timing and because somebody else had the same problem they assume they have the same problem and it must be Oceanic. ....

......The problem is, and this is what many of us are trying to point out, is that nearly every single person who has blamed Oceanic has no way to isolate the salt as the cause .......

..... Consider the possibility that Oceanic has extra nutrients and chemicals which other salts do not. If you were using another salt that did not have this you would not have any of the bacteria or other critters which consume either the chemicals or the algae that grows off of it. When you switch to Oceanic from another salt your tank has no mechanisms to counter this and a small amount of algae is grown..........

........but so many from people who switch from other salts? Has anyone actually stuck with Oceanic for a while and seen if it went away on it's own?

.......To be totally honest though, I disregard almost all of the complaints since they have absolutely no backing or evidence except coincidental timing at best. .........

Although I cant' discard some band wagon effect as throughout this thread I have seen complains that look more like regular hair algae, diatoms or cyano that myself doubt is caused by the salt I would not discard all complaints that easily as many come from aquarists with years of experience and that I respect a lot. Similarly you can see here also reports of no problems from aquarists that have great aquariums and are also well known for their experience in the field.

You my be able to find my original post in this thread you can realize that:

a) I stuck with Oceanic trough several 200 gal buckets, almost three months with weekly water changes testing every batch for which I provided a detailed analysis of the average figures I got. Some of those batches show Phosphate and Silicate in them.

b) As you mentioned I also contemplated the possibility of the tank not able to cope with new nutrients in a cycle like effect but having the algae multiply rather than diminish despite the periodic cleaning I had to discard that possibility

c) How did I concluded was the salt? Very simple, two ways: First how to explain the brown stuff in the mix tank with Oceanic and not the other salts? (No tank aquarium or husbandry issues possible in this case) and Second: Knowing that there will always be the possibility that the salt could not have been the issue, I did a double switch. After the period with Oceanic I went back to my original salt and the algae went away. Once it was gone I switched back to Oceanic and the Algae reappeared very quickly. When back to my original salt and the Algae was gone again. Every thing else equal.

d) I agree with you that although some batches tested zero for Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, Silicate and Phosphate they still generated the brown stuff. So I agree with you that there might be other nutrients that we can not measure (My best guess could be some organics) or might it be just spores ready to bloom when hydrated. When I think that Oceanic is made with natural sea salt this could also be a possibility.

My best recommendation given the lower price and less need for expensive additives is to try the Oceanic. If it works stick with it. If after a reasonable period of time you get the golden algae try switching salt, if the algae is gone you may want to try Oceanic again If the algae does not come back you are on the winning wagon and the reason was something else.
Note again that I doubt that Cyano, Diatoms, Bryopsis or Hair algae are being salt related. The algae I refer to starts like small brown coralline like dots difficult to remove unless scrapped. If the dots are left to grow they start developing a white velvety surface which grows into fussy golden brown filaments. I have even considered the possibility of it not being an algae at all but some sort of liquen.
In summary try it, if it works be happy, if it does not, switch salts and be happy again.

Happy reefing.
 
Silencer said:
The thing is really isn't. As has already been mentioned a lot if not most of this is a 'bandwagon' effect.......


This is a funny post!

1) If there is a "band wagon effect" it is the number of newbees claiming that other people must be jumping on a "bandwagon' because there was an article by that name in Reefkeeping magazine.

2) "Consider the possibility that Oceanic has extra nutrients and chemicals which other salts do not. "

That would pretty much be the definition of "bad batch of salt" wouldn't it?

I found that mine contains phosphates. But that was just a phosphate test kit. Also, see the test results posted earlier.

Even test kists are on the bandwagon!

3) "have absolutely no backing or evidence except coincidental timing at best"

Photos of mixing vats, test results... If you hadn't posted earlier in the thread I would think you haven't read it.

Which leads me to the message you posted earlier in the thread......

4) "I don't have a saltwater tank and have never purchased any brand of salt ever"

Ah. How lucky we are to have someone of your immense qualifications to tell us that we don't know what we are talking about.

Priceless!

:lol:
 
It is strange how I have been using Oceanic since it came out and have never had a problem of any kind in my system.
 
Well it is just like a car imo.

Just because you have a ford truck and it hasn't lit up on fire doesn't mean it is not a faulty product. Because others have had that issue means that there is either a bad batch, bad design, or something else.

Not EVERYONE is going to have algae. A few of us have and we don't know if there was a bad batch that many people got (I'm pretty sure reefcentral is less then 5% of the salt water population). Also consider the fact that most people do not even complain when something does not work well. Most people usually just never get the manufacturer another chance and move on.

Imagine if Oceanic did come out and say yes they always knew about that bad batch but because it is impossible to tell which ones were affected, they couldn't replace any. They would lose alot more customers. Now because they don't admit it and only a few voice their complaints, their sales aren't affected. Most companies do it this way. You really think car manufacturers don't already know? Recalls cost ALOT of money and are avoided unless necessary.

Now I'm not saying this is how Oceanic operates, but when more then one person calls and no one heard about this on their end, it sound a bit fishy. Finally after someone here mentioning this thread and now they fess up to hearing it makes it even moreso.

They did replace my bucket and I haven't tested it out yet but will throw it in my 180 and do tests on it.

I don't see this as a bandwagon affect. No one benefits from it and I think all experienced reefers know their tanks in and out.
 
Thunnus said:
It is strange how I have been using Oceanic since it came out and have never had a problem of any kind in my system.

Thunnus:

I do not think it's strange as it has worked well for many people. and if as Marc has mentioned Oceanic is already working on a formulation for reef that provides a more balanced Calcium and Alkalinity at full Natural Sea Water strenght that will be great as I still have to see a salt that really does that.
Hope they come up with it and I will be willing to try it again when they are ready.
 
2) "Consider the possibility that Oceanic has extra nutrients and chemicals which other salts do not. "

That would pretty much be the definition of "bad batch of salt" wouldn't it?

Possibly, but not necessarily. Extra growth with Oceanic salt could very well mean that it is a better salt that's providing a superior growing environment for the inhabitants of the tank. A negative side effect of this could be the brown growth, which a tank that had previously used a lesser salt has no natural defense against. This is speculation of course, but so is most of this thread, and it's certainly a possible answer.

I found that mine contains phosphates. But that was just a phosphate test kit. Also, see the test results posted earlier.

Even test kists are on the bandwagon!

This may be true, but many other people have not detected any silicates or phosphates yet claim to have had the brown growth. Because of this it seems that there is a good chance that the cause is something completely different that we aren't or can't test for and that's why I'm so skeptical about so many people claiming it's the salt. Tanks get algae blooms and other problems that seemingly appear out of nowhere for no reason, even well kept tanks sometimes, and since we don't really know what this brown growth is or what's causing it I just don't think it's as simple as putting 2 and 2 together.

3) "have absolutely no backing or evidence except coincidental timing at best"

Photos of mixing vats, test results... If you hadn't posted earlier in the thread I would think you haven't read it.

Photos of mixing vats unprotected from multiple sources of contamination without any control to ensure an accurate comparison? What good is that? Over a few days with the right conditions I could put a glass of RO/DI water on my kitchen table and get it to grow something. The only thing a 'test' like this does is give us enough reason do an actual valid test, but by itself it is rather useless, as I mentioned in a previous post.

Test results are far more useful but in a different way. At least a few people who have had the brown growth seem to have tested negative for silicates or phosphates which to me indicates that this isn't the cause. This just raises more doubt about what the true cause is, and while it's certainly possible it's the salt it's also possible that it isn't.

Which leads me to the message you posted earlier in the thread......

4) "I don't have a saltwater tank and have never purchased any brand of salt ever"

Ah. How lucky we are to have someone of your immense qualifications to tell us that we don't know what we are talking about.

I pointed that out to indicate that I'm not biased towards or against any salt. As the closest thing to a neutral observer I was and still am trying to point out that many of the 'tests' and 'evidence' aren't really valid or useful, and they aren't, and I don't need 10 years or 10 minutes in the hobby to know this and neither should anyone else. Without any REAL undisputable evidence all anyone has is timing and speculation.

As I've said before what we need here is a real properly done test to really isolate the salt as the cause. The mixing bucket comes close but needs a control test with at least one other salt tested under the same conditions at the same time.

I don't see this as a bandwagon affect. No one benefits from it and I think all experienced reefers know their tanks in and out.

I think there is at least some. There most certainly is a benefit though. If you've spent a lot of time and money on your tank and are having problems with it which you can't really identify, it's pretty easy and satisfying to start blaming something because other people have blamed the same thing. It justifies your hard work by transferring the cause of the problems to something outside your control. I don't think people are doing it intentionally or knowingly but I do think it's happening with at least some people.

Out of all the complaints how many people have done, well, anything at all, in order to really see that it's the salt causing it? With the amount of complaints you would think there would be tons of tests that prove it's the salt but there aren't, and why not? It's because people have a problem, they use Oceanic and they see a thread like this and put 2 and 2 together without any sort of test at all. Everybody else is having the same problem so it must be the salt. I mean really, the main argument for most people is the very fact that "so many other people" have the same problem it MUST be the cause. While it's certainly possible they are right, that sure sounds like a bandwagon to me :)
 
Thunnus said:
It is strange how I have been using Oceanic since it came out and have never had a problem of any kind in my system.

So you were fortunate enough to not get salt from the batch or batches that were bad.

What is so strange about the notion that there might be inconsistencies between batches?

As for AGA claiming that they have had no complaints, that would be standard for any business. I have gone to business before and been told that I was the first one to have a particular problem, only to meet people later who had been told the same thing about the same problem by the same person.

I don't doubt that Oceanic is good salt if you can get a good batch, but I do think that there is a quality control problem.
 
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