Pukani Rock - Cyano & Cloudy Water

[attaboy]

I have had my Pukani Reef Rock in the tank for 4 months now and continue to experience cyano covering large portions of the rock. The water in the tank also clouds up every couple of weeks and I need a clarifier to get it to clear. I did not cook the rock first, but do have 0 nitrates, .02 Phosphates, excellent skimmer and water flow.

Anyone with experience know how long this rock takes to mature and get rid of these problems?

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

how long has this aquarium been set up... was it up and running BEFORE you added Pukani?

what fishes are you feeding... WHAT do you feed... how much... how often?

is there other rock in the aquarium?

sandbed?

what is your SG and how do you measure it?

do you use RO water?

why do you think the Pukani is causing these problems?

 

[attaboy]

how long has this aquarium been set up... was it up and running BEFORE you added Pukani? It was newly setup, probably a month with the pukani

what fishes are you feeding... WHAT do you feed... how much... how often?
6 small fish in a 175, feed sparingly once per day

is there other rock in the aquarium? Nope

sandbed? Shallow (1") that is cleaned

what is your SG and how do you measure it? 1.026 with refractometer

do you use RO water? yes, RO & DI

why do you think the Pukani is causing these problems?

I'm open to other causes for sure. I suspect the pukani because all other tanks I've setup haven't had these problems and the only difference is live rock vs. pukani base rock.

Thanks for the question and input in advance

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

without the info I asked for it will all be a big guessing game and Pukani might be wrongly blamed.

 

[attaboy]

The answers are up in my previous post after each question

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

thanks- I missed that!

thanks- I missed that!

if you've seen other threads I'm involved in regarding REALLY LIVE liverock... I think this thread pretty much corresponds with my own personal findings.

I take it the Pukani was dry rock when you bought it?

 

[attaboy]

Would you share a link to the thread you mention if you feel it would add value to my situation?

Yes, the Pukani was dry. The reason I thought it may be the rock is due to the postings I've read about it leaching phosphates.

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

quite honestly

quite honestly

what most people are missing is the fact that dry rock isn't alive.

Every living critter in/on dry rock is dead. No bacteria. Nothing. Dead critters add nothing to a reef aquarium... except (possibly) PO4.

There's a trend towards setting up new reef aquaria using dry rock and sterility. Everybody is running scared of bristleworms and purchasing cleanup crew packages.

It's a bad trend IMO.

That's pretty much the jist of the other threads I posted in.

 

[attaboy]

I went dry rock because I was looking to avoid the mantis shrimp.

Do you think adding some live rock to the tank would help my situation?

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

I went dry rock because I was looking to avoid the mantis shrimp.

Do you think adding some live rock to the tank would help my situation?

you know the answer

tip: submerging liverock in freshwater for a few seconds will flush out mantis shrimps

 

[NeilFox]

what most people are missing is the fact that dry rock isn't alive.

Every living critter in/on dry rock is dead. No bacteria. Nothing. Dead critters add nothing to a reef aquarium... except (possibly) PO4.

There's a trend towards setting up new reef aquaria using dry rock and sterility. Everybody is running scared of bristleworms and purchasing cleanup crew packages.

It's a bad trend IMO.

That's pretty much the jist of the other threads I posted in.

I also hope to see this trend go away. I think another reason for it is that people can play around with the aquascape prior to putting stuff in the tank. I have seen some really nice rockscapes that look like crap 3 months down the road. Just saw a post where a guy broke his tank down after a very involved and costly build. I attribute the failure to dry rock. I can't see any redeaming qualities. I actually used a couple pieces years ago because live rock was scarce. The dry stuff was a magnet for GHA. I used it for a nutrient export tool for a couple months then chucked it. The GHA couldn't get a foothold on the real live rock; or at least that was what I thought at the time. I could be wrong looking back, I may have just stuck a phosphate block in there. I would rather risk the hitchhikers. At any rate; I just saw where one outfit was selling 6 bristle worms for $20.00? Times really have changed. I have some nice Aptaisia for sale if anyone is interested?

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

"New to the hobby" folks are learning the hard way what experienced reefkeepers already know.
The use of 100% dead dry rock / skeletons harkens back to the days of undergravel filters and white coral skeletons being components of every marine aquarium. Sterility. And lots of problems with nuisance algae, keeping sensitive marine fishes alive and corals thriving. No pods, foraminiferins, sponges, 'dusters, worms.... you name the critter, it's not there on dead rock.
The critters I'm talking about cannot be purchased in live sand... or cleanup crew packages. These are critters that occur IN or ON liverock. Thousands of species.
When I see people putting deep sand beds in their display aquarium (made with "live sand"!) along with dead rock I just KNOW there's some marketing genius smiling somewhere.

 

[saveafish]

I just saw where one outfit was selling 6 bristle worms for $20.00? Times really have changed. I have some nice Aptaisia for sale if anyone is interested?

Inland Aquatics in Terre Haute In. been doing that for decades.
Detritivore Starter Kit
Our Mysis/Gammarus Kit Plus

Miniature Brittle Stars : 6
Baby Bristle Worms : 12
Stomatella varia : 3
Micro Stars : 6
$84.99

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

two words:

two words:

that's nuts

(in my opinion. might be a real deal for somebody somewhere!)




edit: that can't be for real. If it is, I have a goldmine inside my aquarium!

 

[saveafish]

that's nuts

(in my opinion. might be a real deal for somebody somewhere!)




edit: that can't be for real. If it is, I have a goldmine inside my aquarium!

It's real. Market that gold mine. http://www.inlandaquatics.com/detritivores.html

 

[7Reef]

"New to the hobby" folks are learning the hard way what experienced reefkeepers already know.
The use of 100% dead dry rock / skeletons harkens back to the days of undergravel filters and white coral skeletons being components of every marine aquarium. Sterility. And lots of problems with nuisance algae, keeping sensitive marine fishes alive and corals thriving. No pods, foraminiferins, sponges, 'dusters, worms.... you name the critter, it's not there on dead rock.
The critters I'm talking about cannot be purchased in live sand... or cleanup crew packages. These are critters that occur IN or ON liverock. Thousands of species.
When I see people putting deep sand beds in their display aquarium (made with "live sand"!) along with dead rock I just KNOW there's some marketing genius smiling somewhere.

It has been my experience that most of the life in/on live rock dies during shipping and curing. What is the diff. between already dead dry rock and dead live rock releasing phos? I am not arguing or disagreeing, just a question.

 

[NeilFox]

It has been my experience that most of the life in/on live rock dies during shipping and curing. What is the diff. between already dead dry rock and dead live rock releasing phos? I am not arguing or disagreeing, just a question.

You get what you pay for and what you do with the rock when you get it makes a difference. If it's shipped correctrly and treated right the rock is really somthing. I just set up my current tank about 5 months ago with local live rock. I have a 120 galon and couldn't fit 60kg (about 130#) into the tank. I had 1000ltr NSW on hand and siphoned abd cleaned it as it was curing. I lost most of the sponge but ended up with some great live rock that won't create problems. Haven't seen the bad creatures yet and no GHA even though my nitrate is 10>.

 

[saveafish]

It has been my experience that most of the life in/on live rock dies during shipping and curing. What is the diff. between already dead dry rock and dead live rock releasing phos? I am not arguing or disagreeing, just a question.

If shipped right and cycled right. Most will come back. I have had all kind of things make it alive on my rock. Corals to crabs to even a fish once. Get good live rock not boat rock.

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

It has been my experience that most of the life in/on live rock dies during shipping and curing.

my experience is to the contrary. Well handled liverock retains much of the life in/on it... from alga to higher forms of life up to and including tunicates. I've seen urchins, shrimps, crabs, and one of my personal favorites seen here

I've even seen a blue Linckia come in on LR shipments

What is the diff. between already dead dry rock and dead live rock releasing phos? I am not arguing or disagreeing, just a question.

dead liverock is an oxymoron. It's all dead rock.

To be fair, I've seen "liverock" for sale that is actually dead (wet) rock covered with Aiptasia. Junk.
And in another thread on RC somebody mentioned man made purple (coralline) painted "liverock".
Without the critters and REAL corallines you're getting ripped off UNLESS they tell you upfront what the rock actually is.

Real liverock is actually dead coral heads. Porous, light and full of life (if handled properly)

 

[saveafish]

I also hope to see this trend go away. I think another reason for it is that people can play around with the aquascape prior to putting stuff in the tank. I have seen some really nice rockscapes that look like crap 3 months down the road. Just saw a post where a guy broke his tank down after a very involved and costly build. I attribute the failure to dry rock. I can't see any redeaming qualities. I actually used a couple pieces years ago because live rock was scarce. The dry stuff was a magnet for GHA. I used it for a nutrient export tool for a couple months then chucked it. The GHA couldn't get a foothold on the real live rock; or at least that was what I thought at the time. I could be wrong looking back, I may have just stuck a phosphate block in there. I would rather risk the hitchhikers. At any rate; I just saw where one outfit was selling 6 bristle worms for $20.00? Times really have changed. I have some nice Aptaisia for sale if anyone is interested?

Cost more in long run too. Time its shipped dry rock is about $3 a pound. $150 for 50lbs. Than you wait 3 months spending money on media and test kits. After you spend another 150$ you might have it at the right level just to fight GHA later. so now we are at 300$ with the dry rock going in the tank. Good live rock is running about 6$ now. so 300$ and no GHA hummmm