Purple death palys killing my nassarius snails?!?

[Beandawg]

I feed my tank by turning off my return and broadcast feeding. My purple death palys inevitably grab some mysis, and usually take a few minutes to finish eating. I had been seeing a few nassarius shells over by the PDPs but figured I had a rogue hermit doing some shell shopping. Well last night I fed the tank, a PDP grabbed a mysis, and a nassarius climbed onto the PDP. The snail was on it for a minute or two, (probably trying to eat the mysis) and then just kind of rolled off. The snail never moved again. Dead. I think it is time to move the PDPs off my sandbed.

:uhoh2:

 

[A. Grandis]

Never heard about that before.
Perhaps palytoxin?

Grandis.

 

[Beandawg]

Palytoxin is the only thing that makes sense, and it is reasonable to assume. I would think this sort of thing would be a more widely known issue though...

 

[A. Grandis]

Specially talking about Palythoa sp.
Do you happen to have a picture of the zoanthid?

Grandis.

 

[Beandawg]

This is not my picture, but they are identical.

 

[A. Grandis]

Yep, Palythoa sp.
Would be great to have a picture of yours, and the dead snail too.

Grandis.

 

[Beandawg]

Sorry about the picture quality. I took the picture in the dark with a mag-lite. (I work second shift.) It's still in the same spot, and position. I'm surprised a hermit, or fish hasn't taken advantage of the easy meal...

 

[A. Grandis]

Thanks very much for sharing the picture.
It's good to leave the testimony with the image.

Grandis.

 

[Beandawg]

update

update

The snail is still alive! It's not out of the woods yet, but it is alive. So this is approximately 48 hours after the picture was taken, 72-96 hours after the initial incident. The snail is still in the same spot and position, but I can see definite sluggish (no pun intended) movements of its foot. I also noticed that the other snail shells seem to have moved as well. It appears that the palytoxin paralyzes them temporarily. I am very surprised that no hermits have made an attempt on the snail. I've seen them attack perfectly healthy nassarius. Perhaps they can detect the palytoxin? Stay tuned.

 

[A. Grandis]

Thanks for the update.
Maybe the snail can't get up because it fell on sand.
Try to put it on the glass and see what is it's reaction.

Grandis.

 

[Beandawg]

I flipped it over because it seemed even more active than the first time I checked on it tonight. It doesn't seem very coordinated at the moment, but it seems to be steadily improving. A healthy Nassarius can easily right itself. This one was probably temporarily paralyzed, and weakened by malnutrition for several days. I am feeling slight optimism at this point. I hope it pulls through.

 

[A. Grandis]

Hope so!

This is the first time I hear about Palytoxin working on snails!
Well, we really can't proof that was Palytoxin, but there is not much to say besides that.

This is one more warning for us, when dealing with any type of zoanthid in our tanks!!!!
Specially those Palythoa spp.

For how long did you have the Palythoa in your system?

Keep us posted!

Grandis.

 

[Reef Bass]

Very interesting.

The snail being alive explains why your clean up crew did not descend on it.

It seems reasonable to state that snail experienced some sort of event after interacting with the paly. Now perhaps the snail picked up something from the paly gliding over it. That would suggest general availability of a noxious compound on the surface of the paly. Could be. However, if this were true, I think we'd all be making "when will they learn?" jokes about our temporarily paralyzed snails after they cruise over palys.

Another thought it that the paly was ingesting the Mysis and the Nassarius proboscis probed around or entered the oral cavity of the paly to steal the Mysis. In this case the Nassarius could come into contact with a wide range of substances, including digestive enzymes and possibly palytoxin, which are not generally available on the exterior of the paly.

 

[Beandawg]

For how long did you have the Palythoa in your system?

This particular palythoa, I've had for a week (acclimating to the light on the sand bed). I have others that I've had for years, but they are all mounted on my rock work, out of reach for nassarius.

Another thought it that the paly was ingesting the Mysis and the Nassarius proboscis probed around or entered the oral cavity of the paly to steal the Mysis. In this case the Nassarius could come into contact with a wide range of substances, including digestive enzymes and possibly palytoxin, which are not generally available on the exterior of the paly.

This is exactly what happened I think.

 

[Beandawg]

The snail has moved about 2 inches from the original spot. It is still on top of the sand, and has rotated so that its foot is facing straight out at the front glass.

 

[Beandawg]

I may have been premature with my optimism. I have not seen any movement, and its still about 2 inches away from the original spot. Nothing has taken a bite out if it yet, but I'm not sure how long it can last without food.

 

[Beandawg]

8 days from the PDP incident. The snail is still alive, still in the same spot, and wiggles erratically when food is present in the water column. I tried putting some food up to it's mouth/face, I couldn't really tell if it ate or not. I think I will try feeding in a separate container tomorrow. Why am I so interested in saving a $3 snail?

 

[GhostCon1]

8 days from the PDP incident. The snail is still alive, still in the same spot, and wiggles erratically when food is present in the water column. I tried putting some food up to it's mouth/face, I couldn't really tell if it ate or not. I think I will try feeding in a separate container tomorrow. Why am I so interested in saving a $3 snail?

Because they are tiny submariners.

 

[Beandawg]

They remind me of zombies.

 

[SloppyWhenWet]

My tiger nassarius will be flipped right up side all the time. No idea what the deal is with the things.