QT Disaster

[earwicker7]

I've had my bellus angel harem (four females and two males) in quarantine for two weeks. I treated them prophylacticly with prazipro, and after the first round, treated with prazipro and erythromycin. Yesterday, they were all doing fine... they were swimming all over the place, and eating well.

I woke up this morning, and all five were lying on their sides at the bottom of the tank, breathing heavily. They will occasionally get up and swim, but quickly go back to resting on the bottom.

The only thing I did differently last night was feed a new type of food (LRS Fish Only, a frozen food) and use erythromycin from a new box, as the old one ran out. It's possible that one of those was bad, I guess.

Checked ammonia and nitrites right away, and they were both zero, so I called the LFS. He said erythromycin can strip dissolved oxygen from the water if you're not careful. I followed the directions perfectly, but if he's right, that may make some sense.

I did three 25% water changes over about an hour, and am running carbon to get the meds out, and, just in case, cuprisorb (not likely that there was copper or other heavy metals in either of those, but I can't see it having negative effects). I ran to the nearest pet store and got an air stone.

Right now, I am just sitting back and crossing my fingers... it's been about five hours and none of them are dead yet. I am going to be devastated if they don't recover. Assuming it was oxygen deprivation, what are the odds of them pulling through?

 

[Swayze27]

Hard to say. I would hold off on meds for now. I was going to suggest the air stone as well. Do you have a small powerhead in there to provide a little water movement and to assist with surface aeration? I would make sure there is good aeration and keep everything as stable as possible. Are the fish sick, why meds?

 

[earwicker7]

Hard to say. I would hold off on meds for now. I was going to suggest the air stone as well. Do you have a small powerhead in there to provide a little water movement and to assist with surface aeration? I would make sure there is good aeration and keep everything as stable as possible. Are the fish sick, why meds?

There is some surface movement from the hang-on-back filter, and also some from the chiller's return... it's nothing like it is in the display tank, but it's not a totally calm surface. I don't have any spare powerheads, unfortunately... the ones in the display tank would be WAY too much flow for the QT.

I always treat with Prazipro and Cupramine, just because I don't want flukes and ich getting in my display. I only use erythromycin if the fish looks like it needs it... these were wild-caught fish, and two of them had a couple of collection/shipping dings which looked a little irritated. The dings had cleared up within a couple of days of starting it.

 

[Sk8r]

Aerate when using any med: extra aeration. THat is likely the problem.

 

[Swayze27]

Well that should be good enough for aeration I would think. It's got to be the meds, have you mixed them before? From my experience angels are sensitive especially in new arrival qt stage. I would remove all meds through carbon and water changes at a safe rate. I'm not a big proponent of treating with meds unless absolutely necessary. I've heard too many of these qt horror stories. I truly hope everything pulls through and if they do just monitor for a few weeks in qt for ich, etc. before treating. Just my opinion. Last thing is temp and salinity good?

 

[earwicker7]

Aerate when using any med: extra aeration. THat is likely the problem.

That's my guess too.

I've used these meds with no problems before... never lost a single fish in quarantine. That being said, every other fish I have owned came in as juveniles, which I thought was going to be the case with these until they showed up. They're not full-grown, but it stands to reason that much bigger fish would use more oxygen.

I just hope they recover.

 

[earwicker7]

Well that should be good enough for aeration I would think. It's got to be the meds, have you mixed them before? From my experience angels are sensitive especially in new arrival qt stage. I would remove all meds through carbon and water changes at a safe rate. I'm not a big proponent of treating with meds unless absolutely necessary. I've heard too many of these qt horror stories. I truly hope everything pulls through and if they do just monitor for a few weeks in qt for ich, etc. before treating. Just my opinion. Last thing is temp and salinity good?

Yes, I have used the meds like this before, although it was with much smaller fish, so it is possible that they just needed way more oxygen than the prior fish.

Temperature is controlled with an Apex, a heater, and a chiller, so it's pretty rock solid around 77 or 78. Just measured salinity; it is a tiny bit high, at 1.027.

 

[pfan151]

Yes, I have used the meds like this before, although it was with much smaller fish, so it is possible that they just needed way more oxygen than the prior fish.

Temperature is controlled with an Apex, a heater, and a chiller, so it's pretty rock solid around 77 or 78. Just measured salinity; it is a tiny bit high, at 1.027.

Wouldn't hurt to lower the salinity significantly while they are in qt.Lowering the salinity will help relieve stress.

 

[Khazmodain]

Wouldn't hurt to lower the salinity significantly while they are in qt.Lowering the salinity will help relieve stress.

Plus the side benefit of making your water changes cheaper. I run hypo for four weeks during QT. It does help with stress and I believe it has also been shown that wounds heal faster in hypo (hope I didn't just make that up). The downside is your skimmer doesn't work very well and you have to be careful (slow) when you raise salinity back up.

 

[Mishri]

Prazipro active ingredient is Praziquantel, It has drug interactions with erythromycin, at least in humans, so likely in fish as well.. always research medications before mixing them.

http://www.everydayhealth.com/drugs/praziquantel

My recommendation is to remove both medications ASAP and treat with only one at a time in the future. Even if you used them before without problems, could be different fish, different dosages, different reactions... Some drug interactions don't affect some people the same way, so it stands to reason fish would be different as well, but better to avoid mixing any medication when possible unless noted that it is safe to use with the other.

what's funny is you can figure our fish are likely suffering similar side effects when taking Praziquantel, as many people observe loss of appetite in their fish when using Prazipro, and humans get nausea and upset stomach.