Qt
- Thread starter puffer21
- Start date
pmrossetti
Active member
what about buying, say, from a place like live aquaria, where the fish have already been qt. qt again, anyway?
blue736
New member
problem with new reefers, they aren't experienced enough to have a healthy tank. also setting up & maintaining a QT is tricky at first. you really don't know the process until you have done it.
I QT'd all my fishes. one of them had a real bad case of ick and a bacterial infection. think I had him in QT for 4 months total. he is happy now in my reef tank. two clowns I QT'd for a friend both had ick on day two. I have 3 dedicated QT, all 10g. right now none are setup, no fish to add now. but have them clean and in storage ready to setup when required.
some LFS have ick in their systems & passes onto all new fish they get in. ick can wipe out all your fish in the DT (one - many). then live in your substrate/rock to restart the process each time you add new fish (QT'd or not).
so the point is: you can do no QT and never have a real ick/disease issue. or you can and kill hundreds of dollars worth of livestock. you can QT, and stress/kill your fish too if you don't know how to properly (I did once). this is russian roulette. you have to weigh your options, and do what works for you.
I QT'd all my fishes. one of them had a real bad case of ick and a bacterial infection. think I had him in QT for 4 months total. he is happy now in my reef tank. two clowns I QT'd for a friend both had ick on day two. I have 3 dedicated QT, all 10g. right now none are setup, no fish to add now. but have them clean and in storage ready to setup when required.
some LFS have ick in their systems & passes onto all new fish they get in. ick can wipe out all your fish in the DT (one - many). then live in your substrate/rock to restart the process each time you add new fish (QT'd or not).
so the point is: you can do no QT and never have a real ick/disease issue. or you can and kill hundreds of dollars worth of livestock. you can QT, and stress/kill your fish too if you don't know how to properly (I did once). this is russian roulette. you have to weigh your options, and do what works for you.
steelhead77
New member
What you don't know and can't prove is that if you had just put the infected fish in the DT he very well could have done just as well as in your QT. Ich is not generally a killer. Other factors can play a much more important role in whether a fish survives a bout with ich: Water quality, stress, how it was captured etc.
Lately there have been a lot of threads where someone will place a fish in qt and then kill it by medicating wrongly - even when no signs of ich were present. Other post where people will qt a fish for 6 weeks, drop it in their dt and BAM! it gets ich.
A qt needs to be done properly and can be much more tempermental in terms of water quality than a dt. I think it is unreasonable to expect a newbie to be able to set-up and maintain two (or three) separate systems when it's all they can do to keep one tank stable. If you have the where-with-all to do this, then more power to you.
puffer21
Active member
In regards to blue736, i completly agree with stellhead77. In addition to what he wrote i dont see ick wiping out a tank when the tank is healthy. I get people who have nitrates of 200 and do water changes with ice cold water. Those peoples fish are dieing from ick, but there realy dying from poor water quality and flucuations in temperature. Ick is just the first sign to show you that there is stress. I do believe that there is a risk if you dont QT but i also think there is a risk if you do QT and i believe QTing has a higher risk. Also you QTed a fish for 4 months. I would think he would have done better if placed in your Display tank if it was a healthy stable tank
jeff@zina.com
New member
I quarantine. In some cases it's saved me a lot of headaches. A local LFS has a tank infested with redbugs, those who bought corals and dropped them in their display now have to deal with them. Those who had them in quarantine can treat them, discard them or return them with no effect on the rest of the population.
On the opposite side, I do no prophylactic treatment in quarantine. Fish or corals are simply put in a tank for a few weeks and if they do fine they're moved. If not, I can treat, return them or otherwise deal with it. Buying medication for a 10 gallon tank is cheap compared to 400 gallons in the system.
And lastly, while in quarantine, new arrivals acclimate to my system. By the end of their quarantine they are in exactly the same conditions they'll be spending the rest of their life in. They adjust without having any competition or stress.
Jeff
Uncle Salty 05
New member
How are they acclimating to your system while in QT?
puffer21
Active member
I was only taking about fish, not corals. I do drips on all corals as well as take a toothbrush and scrub the rock if they are atttached to one. This i find typically gets rid of most algeas or anything.
So from reading your post you said that you dont do any treatments in your QT you just watch them, so technically there is ick in your system, but beacuse you probably have a healthy stable tank you are not having any issues.
I am kind of confused when you say while in QT they acclimate to your system. The water a LFS gives you in the bag is not enough to fill a 10 gallon tank? Plus dripping the fish into your system acclimates then to your tank as much as a QT. Unless i am reading your post wrong. You also say they adjust without stress, i find a 10gallon fish tank with flucuating paramaters and no places to really hid but PV pipes not really a "fun" environment
So from reading your post you said that you dont do any treatments in your QT you just watch them, so technically there is ick in your system, but beacuse you probably have a healthy stable tank you are not having any issues.
I am kind of confused when you say while in QT they acclimate to your system. The water a LFS gives you in the bag is not enough to fill a 10 gallon tank? Plus dripping the fish into your system acclimates then to your tank as much as a QT. Unless i am reading your post wrong. You also say they adjust without stress, i find a 10gallon fish tank with flucuating paramaters and no places to really hid but PV pipes not really a "fun" environment
jeff@zina.com
New member
They get the same water, lighting, changes, chemistry, etc. I also get fish in at low salinity and gradually bring it up to the 1.025/6 that I use. Acclimating as in becoming accustomed to my system.
I don't have issues with a quarantine tank cycling because of the water changes. I use water from the system to fill the quarantine and change it often enough that I don't get ammonia spikes, let alone have nitrites/nitrates build up.
Part of my process comes from me approaching this from the aquaculture side, where there are some specific quarantine and cleanliness processes that fall into place. The background is in fresh water but applies to salt as easily. Something as simple as not washing your hands moving from one system to another can wipe out half a year's work as well as contaminate some of the scientific basis of the process. The simple version is contaminating an algae culture with rotifers. If you shut down the production a whole bunch or larvae can die.
I don't have a problem with anyone not quarantining. Whatever works for them is fine with me. I'm just never going to go so far as to say it's useless, or even dangerous.
Jeff
puffer21
Active member
I never said useless or dangerous. Just most people end up killing there fish in the process. I am still kind of confused on how the fish aclimate to your tank from being in QT. I under stand the SG part, but not really the lighting and chemistry. The chemistry in a small tank changes quickly, and the lighting if its the same as your tank and your putting the fish in a QT i dont see how it acclimated
jeff@zina.com
New member
Okay, not acclimated then.
Jeff
Jeff
Uncle Salty 05
New member
puffer21 has a piont.
While the fish is getting used to your water, it is not getting used to your system and the changes it goes through during the day/night cycle and the interactions with the other inhabitants that will occur when the fish is introduced into the DT. A fish cannot become accustomed to your system unless they are in it.
Not ganging up on you Jeff or saying that QT is not a good idea. From what I have gathered by reading your posts you are an experienced aquarist that gives good advice.
Just that most people with established tanks with good stable parameters can make better use of their space, time and money than keeping a QT tank ready to go.
For a beginner with a tank that is young and still has parameter swings QT is probably a good idea, but even then I believe QT kills as many fish as it saves.
Just differing opinions, nothing personal.
While the fish is getting used to your water, it is not getting used to your system and the changes it goes through during the day/night cycle and the interactions with the other inhabitants that will occur when the fish is introduced into the DT. A fish cannot become accustomed to your system unless they are in it.
Not ganging up on you Jeff or saying that QT is not a good idea. From what I have gathered by reading your posts you are an experienced aquarist that gives good advice.
Just that most people with established tanks with good stable parameters can make better use of their space, time and money than keeping a QT tank ready to go.
For a beginner with a tank that is young and still has parameter swings QT is probably a good idea, but even then I believe QT kills as many fish as it saves.
Just differing opinions, nothing personal.
blue736
New member
true, that infected fish could have been good. or he could have spread ick in my DT and other fishes I had previously QT'd. that is the point, I caught it before I had to tear down my DT and go fallow for 6+ weeks. and treat other fish with copper or hypno. I imagine that would add unneeded stress on healthy fish.
only need one tank to start, but I had accumulated 3 over 6 month period of doing quarantines. it is hard to start quarantining at first. but worth it.
there are other purposes to QT other than catching a disease/ick parasites before it affects other livestock. one important one is to observe your new fish, train it to eat your foods, and for your fish to recognize you. also not to have other established fish attack it, or stress it.
also as Jeff pointed out about acclimating, most LFS SG is way to low to save money. going from say 1.018 to 1.0264 in an hour or less is just as bad. in QT you can match the 1.018 (or even lower) and acclimate with almost any stress in less time.
you can make QT as easy or challenging as you want. go with a tank + lamp only and do small daily water changes to control ammonia. or do like I do and get a cheap HOB filter so I can run carbon and house cycled bio-media to keep water parameters in check. I also have 2 PVC elbows to hide in, and got a cheap fake saltwater plant.
steelhead77
New member
There are some pretty ingrained views on this site. QT'ing fish is probably one of the deepest. Another is that at the first sign of ich, even 2-3 spots, you MUST remove all fish and treat them with either hypo or copper and leave you DT fallow for a period of anywhere from 6-12 weeks (depending on who the poster is) otherwise your tank is doomed to have ich from now into perpetuity.
Uncle Salty 05
New member
Going from a 1.018 to 1.026 SG in an hour is no problem whatsoever for a fish.
Their bodies are designed to handle that change, it is the PH and temp that makes acclimation necessary. If you LFS's PH is far from your DT you need to find another LFS.
What good does it do to get your fish eating and not have established fish attack or stess it if that is where he is heading anyway?
At least in the DT the fish has a more natural environment and can find a greater number of hiding places.
Somtimes before introducing a new fish I will rearrange my rock work a bit BEFORE the new addition which cuts down on territorialism.
Their bodies are designed to handle that change, it is the PH and temp that makes acclimation necessary. If you LFS's PH is far from your DT you need to find another LFS.
What good does it do to get your fish eating and not have established fish attack or stess it if that is where he is heading anyway?
At least in the DT the fish has a more natural environment and can find a greater number of hiding places.
Somtimes before introducing a new fish I will rearrange my rock work a bit BEFORE the new addition which cuts down on territorialism.
Uncle Salty 05
New member
If I didn't know better (and I don't really) I might think that some of the "experts" on this site were LFS owners.
duncantse
Fish Advisor
I never qt my fish. I inspect them carefully in my lfs to make sure their healthy. I had a pair of clowns that developed ich but now it's gone. Bought a damsel after and it developed ich but now it's gone. Bought another 10 fish and they never had ich. If your tank is healthy, ich will not spread in my experience.
blue736
New member
training your new fish to eat the foods you have available is good. not having to compete for food, also should be less stress on it. some fish may never eat and die. can't cope with captivity or numerous other possible issues. then you have to remove the corpse... easier to do in a 10g then finding it deep in your rockwork! a fat, happy healthy fish entering a new community tank may be better able to defend itself.
don't get me wrong. not saying QT is the right option for everyone. you can skip this process and never have an issue. my first FOWLR was done without a QT. my reefs have been. my next reef(s) will be QT'd too.
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