QT'd new addition but still got Ich, talked to vet and got a drug please advice.

[Paalk]

So, I got it anyway don't know how but I did. Long story short, after I did everything right(I thought) I still got Ich in my DT.
The tank is a new 500 g tank set up early this year, I used dry rock and TTM to make sure this new tank stayed disease free. I failed!
Anyway last night I noticed several of my fish had white spots on them in spite of my efforts. So I called a veterinarian who specialize in fish medicine for the Salmon industry here in Norway and she wrote a prescription for this drug: Plaquenil 200mg. Hydroxycloroquin. sulf. and told me to dose 5-10mg of the drug to every liter of tank water.

In regards to this I have a couple of questions for you, is this drug the same you call Chloroquine Phosphate? I asked the vet if this was safe to dose into the tank without removing any of the inverts and her answer was that she would have moved the corals but shrimps, snails and starfish could probably stay. Probably don't cut it for me so I ask you guys too. Can I move corals then dose in the display?

The vet claimed that this drug probably did not do any damage to the bio filter except that I might experience an ammonia spike due to algae die off after dosing. So according to her I should be able to use this drug directly in the DT after removing all corals.

After reading about CP here and other places I see that a lot of what she said is similar to some people's beliefs. What do you guys think, should I remove the corals and try this drug?

Please advice.

 

[Dmorty217]

Its one of the 3 forms of Chloroquine you can buy. Remove corals, snails, basically anything that isn't a shrimp or hermit (exoskeleton). I would guess that it will kill starfish too.

 

[Paalk]

Thank you for your input Dmorty. I have no way of finding all my starfish in the tank, this is a pretty large tank and I got a approx. 10-15 starfish which are hidden everywhere under the massive rock formations. You say you guess it will kill them, do you or anybody know for sure the effect it has on starfish? I wouldn't want to kill anything if I can avoid it.

 

[Paalk]

Anybody know for sure what this do to the bio filter? Is the vet right in assuming that it won't affect it?

 

[ThRoewer]

There is no need for rush if it is ich. I would take the time to hunt down all sea stars before starting treatment.

 

[ThRoewer]

BTW, do you have any pipefish or seahorses in that tank? To those CP is reportedly deadly.

 

[Dmorty217]

BTW, do you have any pipefish or seahorses in that tank? To those CP is reportedly deadly.

+1 and wrasse too. It won't affect the biological filtration. If you're unable to find all the starfish I would closely monitor the ammonia levels in the tank

 

[Paalk]

Ok, thank you guys so much for your input. I'll try to find the sea stars before I treat the tank. I do not have pipe fish or sea horses but I do have a Leopard Wrasse, are they sensitive to CP too?

 

[Paalk]

One question Dmorty, you said the CP I have is one of three. In this thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2136214&page=11

They say it is two different drugs that require different treatment regimens, what is your opinion on that?

 

[krullshards]

One question Dmorty, you said the CP I have is one of three. In this thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2136214&page=11

They say it is two different drugs that require different treatment regimens, what is your opinion on that?

Those guys may be talking about Quinine, but I think Dmorty guided you right here.. Take a look at the following link and this bit within it:

[chloroquine base 150 mg is equivalent to chloroquine sulfate 200 mg or Chloroquine phosphate 250 mg]

http://apps.who.int/medicinedocs/en/d/Jh2922e/2.5.1.html

Used in humans to treat Malaria it seems.

 

[ThRoewer]

I just started CP (Ick-Shield Powder) treatment on the QT with my 3. BSJ and 8 barnacle blennies. The last 4 blennies must have brought ich in - all have some white spots and the BSJ started to scratch, get slimy skin and cloudy fins. If it was just for the blennies I may have waited, but with BSJ I'm rather proactive.
In this case I picked CP due to it's anti-inflammatory properties. Let's see if it helps.

Ick-Shield Powder is 1,4-Pentanediamine, N4-(7-chloro-4-quinolinyl)-N1,N1-diethyl = Chloroquine diphosphate salt.

Hydroxychloroquine sulfate is 2-[{4-[(7-Chloro-4-quinolinyl)amino]pentyl}(ethyl)amino]ethanol sulfate (1:1), a different form of Chloroquine. Plaquenil is a trade name for this form.
No idea how it is different in efficiency and dosage, but I would follow the vet's directions.

 

[Dmorty217]

One question Dmorty, you said the CP I have is one of three. In this thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2136214&page=11

They say it is two different drugs that require different treatment regimens, what is your opinion on that?

I have only used Chloroquine Phosphate and not the other two so I can't speak to proper doses for them. I would follow what your vet recommended for dosage and if for some reason it isn't working, try to increase the dosage. As far as the Leopard goes, I would take it out and Tank Transfer it or run in copper for 30+ days. I personally don't use copper or advocate it for treatment of any disease but there are plenty who use it successfully

 

[Paalk]

Thanks guys for all your input. So at midnight Thursday Oslo time I dosed 5mg/l in the tank after everything living that I could find was removed except for the fish.

Today I see less spots and the fish looks to be more "up and going". Don't know if this is just the life cycle of Ich or if it is the meds kicking in. I would have thought that even more of the spots was gone but I don't know. Anyway I am inclined to dose another 5mg/l which was the max dosage recommended by the vet today, but I am not sure if I should stay a little longer on this dosage. What do you guys think? I read a lot of different opinions on dosage on RC so I am a little confused. Should I dose another 5 or wait another day or two?

 

[Dmorty217]

If everyone is still eating I would dose the recommended amount. With chloroquine phosphate I dose 50-60mg/gallon or 12-15mg/L which is on the high side but I haven't had any fish react negatively yet.

 

[Paalk]

Dmorty, still out there? I got another one for you. I am at day 5 now and still no improvement in the tank. Fish are sprinkled with spots but are eating like mad still. I did what you told me and increased to 10mg/l with Hydroxychloroquin. sulf. Krullshards mentioned that 150mg of Chloroquine Base is equivalent to Hydroxychloroquin. sulf. 200mg/l. Does that mean that I have to dose more of my Hydroxychloroquin. sulf to make it work?

If anyone can advice me here I would love to hear from you as I have quiet a lot of prized individuals of fish that I do not want to loose. You'll never get their personality back:sad2: I would hate to see them go.

As a foot note I even found snails alive and all the shrimps. Some starfish I couldn't get out is still alive and even some small ricordea I missed is alive though a little retracted.

Does this mean something, to low dose? Please advice guys.

Thanks

 

[Dmorty217]

IF snails are still alive then the dose isn't high enough... The spots will fall off the fish within the first 3 days and not reappear when the correct dosage is in the tank. Sounds like maybe you have to dose 25% more of what you have to equal the same dose as CP??

 

[ThRoewer]

Should CP not work even after a week at the higher dose I would give hyposalinity a try. If that also doesn't show results within a week, I would start looking at the possibility that it might be something other than ich. Best would probably be to take one fish with clear symptoms to the vet for a biopsy.

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[Dmorty217]

Should CP not work even after a week at the higher dose I would give hyposalinity a try. If that also doesn't show results within a week, I would start looking at the possibility that it might be something other than ich. Best would probably be to take one fish with clear symptoms to the vet for a biopsy.

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+1 hypo and CP work well together too if you wanted to do them both

 

[Paalk]

Ok, thanks a lot! So I will add another 5mg/l or should I try 10mg/l? Maybe I should drop salinity at the same time. How low do you recommend, I read a lot of different opinions regarding that topic. Some people say 1.008 other say 1.017 etc.

 

[Dmorty217]

Actual hypo is 1.010 but I would aim for 1.009 since keeping the salinity stable at that is what's paramount. If salinity rises .001 the 30 day clock starts over at day 1. I would only increase the dosage 5mg/L at most, I'm not familiar with the drug you're using so I don't feel comfortable telling you to dose more honestly. Although if you dose too much the fish will start acting differently (hiding, not eating, listing to one side,ect) and you should do a water change immediately to lower the concentration.