Quarantine for FO

[FishyMel]

Currently quarantining is a hot topic for reefkeeping and FO. Most people avoid the topic completely as a result of fear of bashing etc.

I personally have done aquariums for 17 years and have found quarantine more stressful to the fish than helpful. My theory is that adding a 10 inch fish into a 15 gallon tank for a month will not make it magically healthy, this method only works if you have a 150 gallon quarantine, which most do not. Still even when you do have a 150 gallon quarantine, quarantining is not going to reduce effects of stress and agression put on a new fish; you will still have IME ich and other illnesses as a result of this newcomer stress and aggression.

The best method for healthy fish is to go to a reputable LFS and put the fish on hold for a week or two, usually they have the courtesy to do so and also the smarts not to add anything new to the tank. You could also go to an online dealer you trust such as liveaquaria which quarantine all their fish before even having them for sale. In a way you could consider this quarantine but that would be using the definition very loosely, I would just consider this method common sense.

You can post you own opinion or just anonymously vote. Please be courteous in you response with respect to varying views.

 

[jimmer]

fishymel im with you!never quarantined any of my fish.been in hobby for only7-8 years started with 20 to a 90 now a 180.i have lost 2 fish to ick in past.left all other fish in the display with no problems.good luck your gonna get bashed for your opinion on this topic :eek1:
jimmer

 

[niles1967]

Not using a quarantine tank is not fair to your existing fish. It is synonymous with forcing a human to have unprotected sex. I always quarantine my fish in a 75g tank for 3 to 4 weeks. Treating one fish or even losing one is better than treating or losing the entire tank.

I realize that QTing is a pain but I will never forget the major pain of having to deal with a tank full of velvet. Nothing takes the joy out of this hobby faster than a parasite or disease.

Lastly, replacing one dead fish is not nearly as bad as having to replace an entire tankfull with respect to the already dwindling ocean stock. While money may not be a concern to some hobbyists, the well being of the reefs should be.

Many of you may be simply lucky not introducing an infected fish or experiencing nothing more than Ick. I am not much of a gambler.

 

[reefer334]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12176798#post12176798 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by niles1967
Not using a quarantine tank is not fair to your existing fish. It is synonymous with forcing a human to have unprotected sex. I always quarantine my fish in a 75g tank for 3 to 4 weeks. Treating one fish or even losing one is better than treating or losing the entire tank.

I realize that QTing is a pain but I will never forget the major pain of having to deal with a tank full of velvet. Nothing takes the joy out of this hobby faster than a parasite or disease.

Lastly, replacing one dead fish is not nearly as bad as having to replace an entire tankfull with respect to the already dwindling ocean stock. While money may not be a concern to some hobbyists, the well being of the reefs should be.

Many of you may be simply lucky not introducing an infected fish or experiencing nothing more than Ick. I am not much of a gambler.

Very well said. I recently lost all of my fish in my 300 gal from a disease outbreak recently(very bummed), and now have the tank sitting empty awaiting restarting after sterlizing it for my sharks.
I lost over a thousand dollars in fish!! Let alone I had some for over 2 years I feel terrible about it!!
I will definatley be setting up a QT now for sure!!!
Chris

 

[Freed]

Whoa there 334, you did exactly what mel said to do and you lost all your fish? Hmmmm, wonder what that says about not QT'ing there, fishy. You're playing russian roulette with your fishs lives if you do not QT. Sorry for your losses 334. This will happen to you sooner or later fishy and jimmer.

 

[FishyMel]

I would say killing the whole ocean by not quarantining is a little far fetched. I don't know where you shop but my lfs never has any fish with outrageous diseases that spread like the plague. If the fish I do want to buy has the plague it will show up in the week I have it on hold and I will not purchase the animal. Point and case, it will not go dormant while in the lfs and then instantly kill everything when in my tank. Worst case scenario it is a slow disease and I'll be able to catch it before any fish are harmed.

Ich and diseases similar to ich such as velvet ime are unpreventable and a product of stress not disease, meaning no matter how you cut it you're going to get it. In the past 5 years since having uv sterilization and a mega protein skimmer I have yet to lost any fish to disease and only to stress and aggression from tankmates.

You are also dwindling ocean supply when tossing large aggressive fish into a 75 gallon with insufficient filtration for a month. In result you have a high death rate in there and wonder why. Maybe your fish are small, but for me all my fish are 6+ inches and it would be unreasonable and unfeasible to have a quarantine for it would have to be in the same size tank as the show tank. That is why I have this posted in FO opposed the reef fishes. It is much more reasonable to quarantine clown fish, royal grammas, chromis, damsels, etc, because the tank requirements necessary to do such are minimal.

 

[FishyMel]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12176906#post12176906 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by reefer334
Very well said. I recently lost all of my fish in my 300 gal from a disease outbreak recently(very bummed), and now have the tank sitting empty awaiting restarting after sterlizing it for my sharks.
I lost over a thousand dollars in fish!! Let alone I had some for over 2 years I feel terrible about it!!
I will definatley be setting up a QT now for sure!!!
Chris

Was this the one with your golden heart, golden puffer and that nice fuscus on you avatar? Sorry for the loss.

 

[reefer334]

It struck to of my tanks and yes I lost my gold puffer I had him for 2-3 years!!The gold heart has survived, but the blue line did not make it nor did most of the rest.
I had a super gill fluke outbreak, I tried everything I could nothing worked this went on for months and then I got back from a 2 day trip and had lost the rest about 3 weeks ago.
One of my original fish is the one that started the outbreak, not from a new addition.
Good luck with not QT as I thought the same way before as you fishymel, but now have learned my lesson the hard way!!
Chris

 

[Freed]

reefer, don't bother wishing him luck. He'll have to find out the hard way, and he will sooner or later. Sorry bout the fish in the avatar. That's an awesome looking trigger.

 

[niles1967]

Mel: I quarantine 10" to 12" angels in a 75g tank with no problems. 50% of the time I encounter at least an Ick outbreak that I easily deal with hyposalinity. Since I started QTing I haven't had to deal with anything worse yet. I have never had a quarantined fish die on me or go on to infect my DT. I think you have the benifit of a quality LFS and a lucky streak.

I think it is far fetched to suggest that a Uv light and skimmer(!) will prevent disease. I am not looking to turn this into a ****ing contest. You obviously have your opinion and I have mine.

 

[johno4]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12177070#post12177070 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by FishyMel
Worst case scenario it is a slow disease and I'll be able to catch it before any fish are harmed.

Ich and diseases similar to ich such as velvet ime are unpreventable and a product of stress not disease, meaning no matter how you cut it you're going to get it.

The problem with your theory is that you have to realize in our small systems (compared to ocean) a parasite has the ability to reach concentrations that fish would normally never see in the wild. Yes the diseases are sometimes unpreventable but the idea is that you can either treat the infected fish in qt or it will die in qt before spreading the disease to your other fish. This obviously will only work if you have qt all your fish. Your right, if its in your system you just need to keep it at bay and hope stress does not cause an outbreak. Which seems to be what your doing. I hope it doesnt bit you in the butt like it did me. After my outbreak I qt every single fish in hypo for 1 month whether it showed signs of disease or not. Never had a problem since.

 

[Freed]

No LFS can claim to have 100% of their fish disease free unless they run strict QT on them. It doesn't matter if your LFS has the blessing of the pope either. Any fish in any LFS can have diseases and anyone can bring that fish home and kill their entire tank with that one fish unless it is QT'd.

 

[niles1967]

Just to touch back to the sub topic of losing fish by QTing them. Performing a successful QT is not easy. I think that many people who lose fish doing this are forgetting that the filtration is inadequate and daily water changes and tests need to be done. Simple fresh water filters do not work well and without biofiltration the ammonia spikes very quickly resulting in ultimate death. Nothing worth doing is ever easy.

 

[billsreef]

Re: Quarantine for FO

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12171030#post12171030 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by FishyMel
I personally have done aquariums for 17 years and have found quarantine more stressful to the fish than helpful. My theory is that adding a 10 inch fish into a 15 gallon tank for a month will not make it magically healthy

Yes a 10 inch fish in a 15 gallon is stressful, but IMO a 15 gallon would not be a proper QT for a 10 inch fish. So yes, if your not going to do it the right way, QT will fail. IME as a professional aquarist/aquaculturist of more than 20 years, and a heck of a lot longer as a hobbyist, a properly run QT is invaluable. A proper QT needs to be big enough for the fish to move around without need of a shoe horn, have sufficient decor to provide adequate cover, and have a fully functioning bio filter. Yes, we are talking a whole 'nother tank set up. It's more work, no doubt about it, but it does pay off with healthier fish. Quite seriously, those of us doing this professionally wouldn't bother if it didn't pay off

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12177070#post12177070 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by FishyMel
Ich and diseases similar to ich such as velvet ime are unpreventable and a product of stress not disease, meaning no matter how you cut it you're going to get it.

Sigh, this is a long running myth. These diseases are well known, researched, and a definite product of protozoan organisms, not stress. A proper QT set up and 4 to 6 weeks of observation will indeed allow one to catch, treat and eliminate these parasites before they enter your display. There is simply no reason these parasites can not be kept out of a display tank, providing one chooses to put in the effort.

 

[kevin2000]

Re: Quarantine for FO

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12171030#post12171030 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by FishyMel
I personally have done aquariums for 17 years and have found quarantine more stressful to the fish than helpful.

Taking another viewpoint I have found that QT not only helps me keep disease out of my show tank but has helped me acclimate fish to captivity. I have found the QT a great place to experiment with food and allow the fish to fatten up without competition from other fish or risk of fouling the water quality of the show tank.

To my knowledge no experienced aquarist would stuff a large fish into a small QT.

 

[Freed]

Fishy is only overexaggerating to justify his not using QT.

 

[FishyMel]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12177757#post12177757 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by niles1967
Mel: I quarantine 10" to 12" angels in a 75g tank with no problems. 50% of the time I encounter at least an Ick outbreak that I easily deal with hyposalinity. Since I started QTing I haven't had to deal with anything worse yet. I have never had a quarantined fish die on me or go on to infect my DT. I think you have the benifit of a quality LFS and a lucky streak.

I think it is far fetched to suggest that a Uv light and skimmer(!) will prevent disease. I am not looking to turn this into a ****ing contest. You obviously have your opinion and I have mine.

I wasn't trying to start a contest, I was just presenting a different perspective; Your interpretation may have been skewed from my intent.(that's the problem with computers). I would say my LFS is one of the nicer ones around, the owner has deep pockets and isn't in it for making money. They treat me well.

As for my mention of UV sterilization and super skimming (Euroreef cs8), I mention this to let you know my water is really pure which does cut back on symptoms of disease. Better water = healthier immune system.

 

[mattsilvester]

In my view - q-tine, or the perceived need to do it is based on:
(1) How much trouble it is to treat the fish if ich breaks out.
(2) How much trouble you are preapred to go to save your fish.

Whether or not you get ich in your system is entirely up to "fate".... all it takes is one small hick-up which is beyond your control..... and if the ich parasite is present, then bang.... they've got it.

If your attitude is "well they can deal with it themselves" i.e. you will not treat and are happy to oose one / some / all your fish and just replace them, then q-tine is not for you......

Conversely, if you will treat them, but can either (a) treat in the display Or (b) easily catch and treat them remotely - then again, Q-tine may not be for you.

IF on the other hand, it is a major PITA to catch, and treat your fish, and IF losses at any level are not exceptable, then Q-tine is a must......

For me, no loss is acceptable. That is not to say I do not have losses, but I take each and every one personally. I also have bigger than average fish, in a bigger than average tank..... that would not take kindly to being put into a small tank for treatment..... or in my case I would require several smalelr tanks.... so for me, it is a HUGE PITA to catch and treat remotely...... so for me Q-tine is the only way to go.

"your" perceived need to q-tine your fish will purely be based on "your" perceived level of what is an acceptable loss and what is an exceptable amount of labour...... in my view, its like health insurance..... if you believe that nothing is going to happen to you, that you are healthy, and will not need treatment for anything, then why pay hefty premiums? You could go your entire life and never have a serious illness........ if you eat well, take care of yourself, don't do risky things, and generally look after yoruself, then what are the odds you will never contract a disease, develop cancer, be involved in a car crash, fall off a ladder.....

So - in my view, a q-tine tank is not essential for a healthy system - it is possible to have a healthy system without one, but me, personally, I feel the investment of time and money in the q-tine is worth it, and I woudl recommend everyone do it.....

If you are buying "large" fish, then sure a 10gal q-tine won;t cut the mustard..... but for the vast majority of cases, q-tine is a good idea......

 

[stdreb27]

I definately do, unless your lfs is doing this for you, the chances of a wild caught fish not having parasites is slim. We can't create the ocean environment that manages the parasites. So I am a fan of the qt, (if properly set up).

 

[FishyMel]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12180322#post12180322 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mattsilvester
In my view - q-tine, or the perceived need to do it is based on:
(1) How much trouble it is to treat the fish if ich breaks out.
(2) How much trouble you are preapred to go to save your fish.

Whether or not you get ich in your system is entirely up to "fate".... all it takes is one small hick-up which is beyond your control..... and if the ich parasite is present, then bang.... they've got it.

If your attitude is "well they can deal with it themselves" i.e. you will not treat and are happy to oose one / some / all your fish and just replace them, then q-tine is not for you......

Conversely, if you will treat them, but can either (a) treat in the display Or (b) easily catch and treat them remotely - then again, Q-tine may not be for you.

IF on the other hand, it is a major PITA to catch, and treat your fish, and IF losses at any level are not exceptable, then Q-tine is a must......

For me, no loss is acceptable. That is not to say I do not have losses, but I take each and every one personally. I also have bigger than average fish, in a bigger than average tank..... that would not take kindly to being put into a small tank for treatment..... or in my case I would require several smalelr tanks.... so for me, it is a HUGE PITA to catch and treat remotely...... so for me Q-tine is the only way to go.

"your" perceived need to q-tine your fish will purely be based on "your" perceived level of what is an acceptable loss and what is an exceptable amount of labour...... in my view, its like health insurance..... if you believe that nothing is going to happen to you, that you are healthy, and will not need treatment for anything, then why pay hefty premiums? You could go your entire life and never have a serious illness........ if you eat well, take care of yourself, don't do risky things, and generally look after yoruself, then what are the odds you will never contract a disease, develop cancer, be involved in a car crash, fall off a ladder.....

So - in my view, a q-tine tank is not essential for a healthy system - it is possible to have a healthy system without one, but me, personally, I feel the investment of time and money in the q-tine is worth it, and I woudl recommend everyone do it.....

If you are buying "large" fish, then sure a 10gal q-tine won;t cut the mustard..... but for the vast majority of cases, q-tine is a good idea......

I would agree with that,. I'd also agree that I have had a very lucky streak and an lfs's around here seem to work with me better than most. Probably because here in Austin the amount of FO keepers are minimal so stores want to keep my buisiness.