Holyhands22
New member
A lot of people dose there QT's with copper based medications. A lot of fish don't react we'll to this. Iam trying to figure out why some people have great success with there dosing and others don't????
Quarantine /water parameters for a QT
- Thread starter Holyhands22
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Holyhands22
New member
Also hypo salinity in QT yes or no????
downbeach
New member
You have to be very diligent in the application of copper medications, with proper dosage and monitoring. Use a good copper test kit, and follow the manufacturer's directions. If using Cupramine, I'd suggest getting Seachem's copper test kit, since they make both.
If you just want something to use as a prophylactic, you might take a look at their Paraguard solution, since it's a broader spectrum treatment. DON"T mix Cupramine and Paraguard together.
If you just want something to use as a prophylactic, you might take a look at their Paraguard solution, since it's a broader spectrum treatment. DON"T mix Cupramine and Paraguard together.
IME, it's best to raise any copper based med slowly. If the directions on the bottle say 2 days, cut the doses in half and do it in 4 days instead. Unless you're dealing with a quick killing parasite, such as Velvet. It's also important to understand that copper is not really a medication per say, but a poison. It works because most fish can withstand the poison longer than the parasite they're being afflicted by. However, certain species of fish (Angels, Puffers, Lions) seem to have more trouble than others with it. One common side effect of copper is appetite suppression. However, this is usually remedied by dropping your copper level to the minimum effective dosage (0.35ppm for Cupramine, 1.5ppm for Coppersafe).
IMO, hypo is too tedious to be truly effective. Hypo also does nothing for Velvet, often mistaken for Crypto, and there is now scientific proof (see link below) of hypo resistant strains of Crypto.
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa164
IMO, hypo is too tedious to be truly effective. Hypo also does nothing for Velvet, often mistaken for Crypto, and there is now scientific proof (see link below) of hypo resistant strains of Crypto.
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa164
downbeach
New member
Your choice. Here are some articles with info on a number of possible treatments:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-10/sp/feature/index.php
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichart2mar.htm
Holyhands22
New member
Im trying to understand the whole quarantine aspect of this hobby everyone says you need to do it but i guess you just have to do trial and error to figure out your personal preferences. I like the idea of hypo salinity and what its "supposed" to do but never have tried it and was just looking for some experience thanks for the articles.
Holyhands22
New member
These readings say that a 36 inch tank should be big enough. For 6 weeks wouldn't this small tank stress out larger fish like large angels or tangs. Or fish that need more swimming room??
How large are we talking about? IMO, a 29 gal or 20 gal (both 30 inches) would work for most fish under 6 inches. Anything 6+ inches is a game changer, and would need a 40 breeder, 55 or 58 gal, or even a 75 gal depending on the size.
Holyhands22
New member
Ok thats what i was thinking. Something bigger. Im starting a 300 gallon build wanted some larger fish.
Holyhands22
New member
Do most people use canister filters in the qt. thinking about using that but if i use a different sump wouldnt that be more like the dt. Providing them with the best nutrition and water quality???
Personally, I like the AquaClear HOB filters. They come in 5 different sizes, are easy to clean, and all have these foam/sponge inserts that you can stick in your DT sump (or behind the rocks) to "seed" with bacteria to give you biological filtration.
I use the AC 70 on my 29 gal QT, AC 50 for my 20 gal. You might want the AC 110 for a larger QT. I always seed the foam/sponge for 1 month. I never have ammonia issues in QT. Replacement sponges are cheap.
Holyhands22
New member
You have your 2 QT's and DT connected to 1 sump?
MarlinDreams
Member
From everything that I have read, especially from sk8r, medication in QT's is only after a parasite and/ or problem is noticed. He suggests setting up the tank and then careful observation, this way in case there are no parasites the fish will not be stressed. There is an excellent sticky about this.
Regards,
JTC
Regards,
JTC
No, I have 2 QTs. I use AquaClear power filters on them for filtration. They are in no way connected to my DT or it's sump.
What I do is take the foam inserts that come with the AquaClear power filters, and put only them in a high flow area of my DT's sump for 1 month prior to when I want to use them. After 1 month those foam inserts have become seeded without enough bacteria to be useful for biological filtration. I then put the foam inserts back in the power filters and use them on my QTs.
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greg1786
Active member
a qt tank is generally set up without copper or other medications for parasites correct? The qt is for observation purposes to ensure the fish is eating , is in good health, and doesnt have to deal with all the fish in the DT after being shipped or brought home from lfs right? only use copper or hypo if once the fish is in QT it displays some sort of parasite or disease right?? And it needs its own filtration for that purpose also correct? You wouldnt want it connected to you DT sump for the same reason that if the fish is infected it wont then transfer into the sump and into the DT. also if you need to treat with copper or hypo your reef tank cant handle either of those treatments. thanks in advance for replys
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Posted from ReefCentral.com App for Android
Well IMO, it's good for a fish to just "chill" right after you buy him. No competition for food, no aggression from other fish. QT lets a fish recover from the ordeal of being flown half way around the world in sometimes deplorable conditions, as well as all the various tanks he's been in and out of. The no competition for food thing is great for letting him build up or regain his strength for the inevitable pecking order battle he'll face once he hits your DT. I just got in a skinny, wimpy Blonde Naso who would get absolutely creamed by my PBT if I were to put him right in. But everyday in QT, I can see him getting stronger and more assertive. He should be able to hold his own in a couple of months.
The prophylactically medicating thing is a hotly debated topic. Obviously, you want to look for signs of disease and treat accordingly. But personally, I don't take any chances. I just assume every fish I buy is diseased, and they all get 2 rounds of Prazi followed by either a month in copper or chloroquine phosphate. This covers most of the bases. If nothing else, I'd strongly encourage you to at least prophylactically treat with PraziPro. Worms can be difficult to diagnose, and Prazi has almost no side effects/risk.
my qt tank only gets filled when i need it. and then its just a healthy water change water off the display... i use a 55 qt my system is around 300 gallons total water... I dont assume the fish have parasites, livestock selection is key, just let them be in QT for a few months b4 adding to main tank, then drain the qt tank. i only run a bakpak skimmer and have pumps for flow in it... if medication is needed then would add it, but not unless needed, no sense stressing the fish and copper/ antibiotics all bring some risk to a healthy fish.
plasmacon
New member
QT is an absolute must in this hobby. Especially when your fish stock in one tank costs $500.00 or more. Some people, including myself take it much more seriously than a hobby, and for some it's their occupation. I've haven't seen one LFS ever that hasn't had at least one sick, dying, or dead fish when I arrived.
My fish setup starts off with a 20L which fits most fishes needs for a couple of months. For a biofilter, I use a 2 RODI canisters filled with bio balls or other high surface area plastic media. I can add/remove activated carbon as needed. Basic lighting and heater. If the tank has been offline for a while, I add ammonium hydroxide to water to make a 10% ammonia and water solution to add to the tank to jack the bacterial load up for fish. Basic household ammonia will work fine as long as its free of soaps, scents, and color. You would be surprised how toxic a couple of drops of ammonia can be in a 20L tank. I put a foam intake filter on the biofilter. The foam filter has been in my sump for a while to provide the starter culture.
I also add a couple of ceramic decorations that won't absorb any chemicals you add to the system. They provide hiding spots for your fish.
As someone said earlier, I use cupramine prophoactically to make sure ich doesn't make it to any displays. If you have copper sensitive fish, use only 3/4 of the full dose, and take twice the time to raise the level to 3/4 strength. I run lower strengths for longer as well, 3 weeks if everyone is doing well. If you have to do an emergency water change. Just add the proper amount of cupramine to the make up water and then do your water change. Test kits are good tools, use them.
After the cupramine, I do a 50% water change and add activated carbon to my BRS dual canisters, and leave that for 3 days. Remove the carbon, then I hit them with prazipro, for the recommended duration, or a little long depending on the need. I do another water change, and carbon, they rest again for a few days and then the head to the display.
I typically feed frozen enriched foods to keep their appetites up, and no treatment happens until they are eating. Unless special circumstances apply. I always remove the excess food with a brine shrimp net.
This setup has worked for me for years, and I can honestly say, I haven't had an ich outbreak in any display tanks since 1997. It is tedious, but very successful. Some fish require different approaches, and the setup is for the majority of fish the can handle at least 3/4 doses of cupramine.
Some people say that prophoactic treatments aren't necessary, and possibly harmful. My argument to that statement is simple. In the united states, it is against the law to skip prophoactic treatments for our pets for communicable and deadly diseases. I see cryptocaryon irritans as it is, a disease that spreads to our other pets and quite possibly will kill them. I see no differences between canine rabies, distemper, parvo, or crono viruses as examples. Not all pet diseases are communicable to humans, but for the safety of our pet populations at large, they are treated. Fish are the same way. They get treated for the well being of the population as a whole. If our fish could climb out of our systems and get the neighborhood fish sick or dead on their own, you can bet your salary that laws would be past to destroy these disease before they have a chance to do damage.
Hope this helps.
My fish setup starts off with a 20L which fits most fishes needs for a couple of months. For a biofilter, I use a 2 RODI canisters filled with bio balls or other high surface area plastic media. I can add/remove activated carbon as needed. Basic lighting and heater. If the tank has been offline for a while, I add ammonium hydroxide to water to make a 10% ammonia and water solution to add to the tank to jack the bacterial load up for fish. Basic household ammonia will work fine as long as its free of soaps, scents, and color. You would be surprised how toxic a couple of drops of ammonia can be in a 20L tank. I put a foam intake filter on the biofilter. The foam filter has been in my sump for a while to provide the starter culture.
I also add a couple of ceramic decorations that won't absorb any chemicals you add to the system. They provide hiding spots for your fish.
As someone said earlier, I use cupramine prophoactically to make sure ich doesn't make it to any displays. If you have copper sensitive fish, use only 3/4 of the full dose, and take twice the time to raise the level to 3/4 strength. I run lower strengths for longer as well, 3 weeks if everyone is doing well. If you have to do an emergency water change. Just add the proper amount of cupramine to the make up water and then do your water change. Test kits are good tools, use them.
After the cupramine, I do a 50% water change and add activated carbon to my BRS dual canisters, and leave that for 3 days. Remove the carbon, then I hit them with prazipro, for the recommended duration, or a little long depending on the need. I do another water change, and carbon, they rest again for a few days and then the head to the display.
I typically feed frozen enriched foods to keep their appetites up, and no treatment happens until they are eating. Unless special circumstances apply. I always remove the excess food with a brine shrimp net.
This setup has worked for me for years, and I can honestly say, I haven't had an ich outbreak in any display tanks since 1997. It is tedious, but very successful. Some fish require different approaches, and the setup is for the majority of fish the can handle at least 3/4 doses of cupramine.
Some people say that prophoactic treatments aren't necessary, and possibly harmful. My argument to that statement is simple. In the united states, it is against the law to skip prophoactic treatments for our pets for communicable and deadly diseases. I see cryptocaryon irritans as it is, a disease that spreads to our other pets and quite possibly will kill them. I see no differences between canine rabies, distemper, parvo, or crono viruses as examples. Not all pet diseases are communicable to humans, but for the safety of our pet populations at large, they are treated. Fish are the same way. They get treated for the well being of the population as a whole. If our fish could climb out of our systems and get the neighborhood fish sick or dead on their own, you can bet your salary that laws would be past to destroy these disease before they have a chance to do damage.
Hope this helps.
