Queen Angel - juv. to adult variability

[mattsilvester]

For many moons I have been a fan of queen angels. I had one before, about 10years ago ..... I may soon have one again.

In this time I have never been able to figure out how, if at all, one can choose a "nice" juv. That is to say, what attributes would a juvanile fish have that would to some extent assure a nice adult?

Obvisouly, everyones idea of "nice" varies..... and this is a highly variable species, and the javaniles seem to vary as much as the adults.... with some darker specimens showing vibrant blue bars, while other are brighter all round, and mainly yellow.

Does anyone have pictures of their own queen as a juv. and adult? Or do you have some comment, based on fact rather than supposition?

Many thanks in advance.

 

[SDguy]

Even though I've been told that the amount of blue or yellow on an adult has to do with where it was collected, I still seem to only see very yellow adults in captivity if they were grown from babies. Odd coincidence.

 

[blface]

I currently have a queen that I added as a juvinile back in November of 2010.
I was also very surprised that it has seemed to morph into a mostly yellow main body color. Lately, last month or so, I have noticed the green hues start
to show up more on the main body. Here's a pic when I first added her. I'll try to get an updated pic this weekend. She has grown alot.

 

[mattsilvester]

Even though I've been told that the amount of blue or yellow on an adult has to do with where it was collected, I still seem to only see very yellow adults in captivity if they were grown from babies. Odd coincidence.

That has been my experience also. While the mainly yellow ones are beautiful, I presonally prefer the more blue variety. So I'm wondering, is it a genetic thing or an environmental thing i.e. do captive conditions and diet lend themself to yellow colouring? we know foodstuffs are a factor in colour intensity......

I currently have a queen that I added as a juvinile back in November of 2010.
I was also very surprised that it has seemed to morph into a mostly yellow main body color. Lately, last month or so, I have noticed the green hues start
to show up more on the main body. Here's a pic when I first added her. I'll try to get an updated pic this weekend. She has grown alot.

That would be interesting to see because from looking at the juv. pic it wold have indicated to me that yours would develop into the more blue variant as there is some underlying blue in the body, and intuitively I would have thought darker juv.'s would develop into darker, blue adults..... and more lightinly coloured juv.'s into yellow ones.

 

[humaguy]

always found that my queens from further south...sa,...are bluer then their carrib counterparts....

 

[SDguy]

Double post

 

[SDguy]

always found that my queens from further south...sa,...are bluer then their carrib counterparts....

They generally live a long time...how many have you had? Purchased or grown from ~2" in dividuals?

 

[Triton_Z]

I purchased my Holacanthus ciliaris as a small adult and this specimen was captured down in the Florida keys. I see more Yellow than Blue, but hopefully some others will post some from down near South America.

I wanted to purchase a large juvenile to see the transition, but was not able to source a good one without going too small.

Attitude is pretty aggressive.

 

[randomfishguy85]

Triton Z, that is a beautiful queen, how large is it?

 

[philter4]

I currently have a queen that I added as a juvinile back in November of 2010.
I was also very surprised that it has seemed to morph into a mostly yellow main body color. Lately, last month or so, I have noticed the green hues start
to show up more on the main body. Here's a pic when I first added her. I'll try to get an updated pic this weekend. She has grown alot.

I have seen thousands and thousand of queen, blue, and hybrid angels in the last 15 years diving and working as a collector in south Florida and the color has a lot to do with the area they are collected and how pure they are. Blface, my thoughts when looking at your fish is that it probably is a hybrid angel that is not 50/50. One parent was a townsend the other a pure queen.

There are several things that make me think this, first in queens the black bar over the eye will stay dark all the way through the cheeks until the fish begins to lose it's juv. colors, in the photo it is already a very faded black and the yellow is coming through. By the time this bar begins to fade you should see some bright blue dots in the upper part of the bar that will eventually become the jewels in the crown. Next the central white bar is "kinked" in pure queens this is always a smooth arc, in blue angels it is a straight line and when crossed it is a combination. These are my own personal observations not 100% fact, but I have never seen a queen that had yellow cheeks or kinked white bars except for where they are found with blue angels.

Anywhere there is blue and queen angels together I am suspect that there are no pure individuals, only individuals whose parentage is mostly blue or queen. This overlap produces the more faded and or yellower individual queens and much brighter blue angels than anywhere else in the range. There is only a small portion of the range that they overlap, blue angels are found in the gulf and on the east coast of Florida north from about the top of the keyes to the to the upper parts of the range and queens are found from the southern part of the Florida peninsula (north of Jupiter) to the lower part of Brazil. That small overlap from Jupiter to the upper keyes is where the faded queens and brighter blues are found.

 

[humaguy]

They generally live a long time...how many have you had? Purchased or grown from ~2" in dividuals?

currently have 2...1 sa and 1 carrib...both dd, both about 1.5 inches when purchased 2 years ago...both now around 5 to six inches.

the oldest queen ihave ever kept was about 8 years...

the 2 I have now are not in the same tank but can see eachother and spend a lot of time watching each other...

both will go in the 800...

 

[humaguy]

I purchased my Holacanthus ciliaris as a small adult and this specimen was captured down in the Florida keys. I see more Yellow than Blue, but hopefully some others will post some from down near South America.

I wanted to purchase a large juvenile to see the transition, but was not able to source a good one without going too small.

Attitude is pretty aggressive.

she is stunning!

 

[geaux xman]

any place with the really almost entirely yellow queen available for sale? i believe from the brazil area. i see them a lot in the asian aquarium tanks on youtube.

 

[philter4]

There was a place in Hollywood FL called Beverly's and they had a solid yellow one several years ago, it was a full sized adult but did not look healthy. The only other colors besides the yellow was the crown and the blue edging to the fins. In the ocean off the coast of Pompano Beach, North of Lighthouse Pt I have seen a solid gold queen, it is stunning but full sized, way to big to be collected let alone put in a fish tank. Same as the yellow one in the store, the only color not gold was the crown and very little blue edging to the dorsal and anal fins. I have heard that it is commonly seen there and photographed but I have not found any pictures of it and I have asked all of my photographer friends.

 

[humaguy]

remember the all gold queen angel that bbox got in last july? that was a very nice example and was quite small...i can't get into my photobucket account to post the pics and video clip...but it is still on bb's website...

 

[Triton_Z]

Triton Z, that is a beautiful queen, how large is it?

Thanks, about 7" long.

 

[Triton_Z]

I have seen thousands and thousand of queen, blue, and hybrid angels in the last 15 years diving and working as a collector in south Florida and the color has a lot to do with the area they are collected and how pure they are. Blface, my thoughts when looking at your fish is that it probably is a hybrid angel that is not 50/50. One parent was a townsend the other a pure queen.

There are several things that make me think this, first in queens the black bar over the eye will stay dark all the way through the cheeks until the fish begins to lose it's juv. colors, in the photo it is already a very faded black and the yellow is coming through. By the time this bar begins to fade you should see some bright blue dots in the upper part of the bar that will eventually become the jewels in the crown. Next the central white bar is "kinked" in pure queens this is always a smooth arc, in blue angels it is a straight line and when crossed it is a combination. These are my own personal observations not 100% fact, but I have never seen a queen that had yellow cheeks or kinked white bars except for where they are found with blue angels.

Anywhere there is blue and queen angels together I am suspect that there are no pure individuals, only individuals whose parentage is mostly blue or queen. This overlap produces the more faded and or yellower individual queens and much brighter blue angels than anywhere else in the range. There is only a small portion of the range that they overlap, blue angels are found in the gulf and on the east coast of Florida north from about the top of the keyes to the to the upper parts of the range and queens are found from the southern part of the Florida peninsula (north of Jupiter) to the lower part of Brazil. That small overlap from Jupiter to the upper keyes is where the faded queens and brighter blues are found.

Philter,

These are interesting observations and thanks for sharing your experiences. I've wondered how the effects of mixing between H. cilaris and H. bermudensis would show in the wild. Hopefully, the thread will get some more pictures of some of the more unusual colorations.

 

[Triton_Z]

remember the all gold queen angel that bbox got in last july? that was a very nice example and was quite small...i can't get into my photobucket account to post the pics and video clip...but it is still on bb's website...

I ran across the pictures searching for townsend information, here's the article from Reef Builders back in July 2011, but RC filters will not allow posts to Reef Builders site. Guess you'll have to google B Box and Queen Angelfish to get to the post.

Shame...

 

[humaguy]

yeah, she is a beautiful fish...

 

[mattsilvester]

I purchased my Holacanthus ciliaris as a small adult and this specimen was captured down in the Florida keys. I see more Yellow than Blue, but hopefully some others will post some from down near South America.

I wanted to purchase a large juvenile to see the transition, but was not able to source a good one without going too small.

Attitude is pretty aggressive.

Jealous.com !!!

That is a beauty!!!

What lighting do you have her under? I suspect there are lots of cinderella's out there under the wrong lighting.

I don't know how you would describe that fish ..... I would say she is blue with yellow scale tips.....

Philter > your experience and knowledge seems well formed and logical ..... would you say that Triton's fish is a pure H. ciliaris? If so, in your opinion is that a typical 7" adult colours for a pure queen? and if so, I owuld appreciate as many tips on attributes that lend themselves to pure specimens.