Queen Angel - juv. to adult variability

[burbarry]

I currently have a queen that I added as a juvinile back in November of 2010.
I was also very surprised that it has seemed to morph into a mostly yellow main body color. Lately, last month or so, I have noticed the green hues start
to show up more on the main body. Here's a pic when I first added her. I'll try to get an updated pic this weekend. She has grown alot.

Here is a pic of mine I was told when I bought him that it was a Blue/Queen Angel mix. I got him about a month ago and this was taken about 2 weeks after I got him. When I first got him he looked like yours. Now he has grown about an inch already and is mostly yellow on his body.

 

[blface]

That's funny that some of you think mine is a cross. When I first posted pics of this fish a year ago I was assured by all, even copps, it was a 100% full blooded queen.
the pic of the above fish has straight bars not curved like mine.
Here's another pic of mine when I first got it from the other side.

 

[SDguy]

*edit*

NM... I was confused

 

[philter4]

That's funny that some of you think mine is a cross. When I first posted pics of this fish a year ago I was assured by all, even copps, it was a 100% full blooded queen.
the pic of the above fish has straight bars not curved like mine.
Here's another pic of mine when I first got it from the other side.

Blface, while I agree it is not a 50/50 hybrid it is not a pure queen. As I have mentioned I have seen so many of these while working in the industry the only place they come from with that color pattern is where queens and blues occur together. Never, in probably 1000 fish collected in the Caribbean or Brazil where there are no blue angels, have I ever seen a queen with a "kink" in the upper and lower part of the second white stripe, yet where the two fish are found together they are more common than either a smooth curve or a straight white stripe. I don't doubt that you were told that it was a pure queen, not because of any dishonesty but because it is not a typical blue or hybrid so the logical choice is queen. The real cause of the atypical color pattern is it is a cross between a hybrid and a pure queen. Also while I am very confident in anything that Copps says I have to disagree with him on this, it is one of the few areas that I have a lot of experience. You don't have to agree with me, and it is a beautiful and healthy fish, I just see too many signs that it has blue angel DNA mixed in.

 

[mattsilvester]

I currently have a queen that I added as a juvinile back in November of 2010.
I was also very surprised that it has seemed to morph into a mostly yellow main body color. Lately, last month or so, I have noticed the green hues start
to show up more on the main body. Here's a pic when I first added her. I'll try to get an updated pic this weekend. She has grown alot.

Hey blface,

I was just wondering if you had managed to get a recent picture of your queen - further to the discussion her etc.

I saw a few juv. queens and a few small townsend's today at the LFS - it got me thinking, again.

 

[blface]

I will try & get a new pic this weekend.

 

[copps]

That's funny that some of you think mine is a cross. When I first posted pics of this fish a year ago I was assured by all, even copps, it was a 100% full blooded queen.
the pic of the above fish has straight bars not curved like mine.
Here's another pic of mine when I first got it from the other side.

blface, as I sat there looking at that photo again I was scratching my head thinking... "I assured that was 100% queen?" It made me go back and look and I found my original comment in 2010 here...

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1931800&page=2

My comment...

"Yes that fish is all or mostly queen... Note the curvature of the 4th white bar from the eye... At that size it is impossible to tell if the fish has a little blue angel in it, unless you can verify it was a specimen imported from Brazil... Notice also that the dorsal and anal filaments become elongated at a smaller size in queens... the blues stay "boxier" longer..."

Far from an assurance it is 100% queen! In fact it is the opposite... I said it is impossible to assure it without knowing its origin!

Blface, while I agree it is not a 50/50 hybrid it is not a pure queen. As I have mentioned I have seen so many of these while working in the industry the only place they come from with that color pattern is where queens and blues occur together. Never, in probably 1000 fish collected in the Caribbean or Brazil where there are no blue angels, have I ever seen a queen with a "kink" in the upper and lower part of the second white stripe, yet where the two fish are found together they are more common than either a smooth curve or a straight white stripe. I don't doubt that you were told that it was a pure queen, not because of any dishonesty but because it is not a typical blue or hybrid so the logical choice is queen. The real cause of the atypical color pattern is it is a cross between a hybrid and a pure queen. Also while I am very confident in anything that Copps says I have to disagree with him on this, it is one of the few areas that I have a lot of experience. You don't have to agree with me, and it is a beautiful and healthy fish, I just see too many signs that it has blue angel DNA mixed in.

Well said Philter... but as I clarified above we are basically in agreement on this fish... I will add though that not all atypical queen barring is a result from blue angel genetic input... this pure queen specimen was brought in by Joe Russo from Brazil...

Copps

 

[mattsilvester]

I will try & get a new pic this weekend.

Look forward to it

 

[blface]

Sorry for the misquote John. I could of sworn you thought it was a pure queen. This might explain the reason the fish is still very yellow compared to the normal green color of an adult queen. FWIW my LFS stated it came from QM via Brazil. I should have an updated pic today. Just did some maintenance and need the tank to clear up first.

 

[copps]

Sorry for the misquote John. I could of sworn you thought it was a pure queen. This might explain the reason the fish is still very yellow compared to the normal green color of an adult queen. FWIW my LFS stated it came from QM via Brazil. I should have an updated pic today. Just did some maintenance and need the tank to clear up first.

The real test is if the fish understands Portuguese... then you know it's a queen too... If the LFS truly knows that then again you can be assured it's a queen... I was just at Quality earlier this week and was showing to the guys the Townsend's they had from the Keys... they do not distinguish between Townsend's and blues or queens... but I told them no one will really complain their blue is too pretty or has queen in it... so sell them as blues...

Copps

 

[philter4]

Hey Copps, as mentioned, I put a lot of stock in your experience and I never read the original so I was going off the information given. I also agree that aberrant patterns do not mean it isn't a queen, but I just see too many other signs that there is blue angel DNA mixed in.

 

[blface]

I know it's been forever since I promised a pic but the kids broke the only decent camera I have. I was off today so tried using my daughters cheap camera.
After 100 pics this was the best one. This was taken with no flash or any editing. What's everybodys opinion now??

 

[SDguy]

Hybrid for sure. Gorgeous! I love the bright yellow!

 

[humaguy]

all yellow tail...and the blue on the anal fins, I think it is color morph and not a hybrid...
glad this post is back...here are both of mine..living in the big tank together...the Braz does chase the Caribbean...
they were both raised from tiny babies...1.25 inches...
Braz..

Caribbean

 

[SDguy]

all yellow tail...and the blue on the anal fins, I think it is color morph and not a hybrid...

Look at the base of the pectoral fins, and the anal and dorsal fins where they meet the tail, plus just the overal lack of blue (in cetain areas, like the tiny crown). Definitely a hybrid.

 

[humaguy]

See that Peter...hmmm...still not entirely convinced...but, I could def. be wrong...would love to hear from Kiyoshi, Copps, or Luiz...
btw I mislabled my pics...
pics 1 and 4 are Brazilian...
pics 2 and 3 are Caribbean...

 

[alton]

Nice fish thanks for posting

 

[phk36]

Thae first picture is a blue the next is a queen from five years ago. I do not have them at this time . Lost them and others to some un known. My local store has a large and small Queen they are very nice. I want to start a reef so I have to keep away, Pete

 

[phk36]

Thae first picture is a blue the next is a queen from five years ago. I do not have them at this time . Lost them and others to some un known. My local store has a large and small Queen they are very nice. I want to start a reef so I have to keep away, Pete

 

[tcmfish]

That crown on the all yellow fish looks pretty queen to me. It is a blue circle with a black center with tiny blue dots. The body coloration is wild though. Makes me think color morph.