Questions about qt

[Janh]

Probably a ridiculus question but is it possible to have an invert tank that is used as a QT for fish? I am sure there are a million reasons why this should not be done, but I can't think of them.

I was thinking of turning my 36bowfront into a invert tank with some live rock. No corals. This way it could be setup all the time, and provide something to look at. I was not planning on using it as a qt for a noticeably sick fish, but for new purchases.

If people could let me know the downsides to doing this, I would appreciate it. Thanks in advance.

 

[sandwi54]

first of all, congratulations on the plan to quarantine new fish. you'll be miles ahead of 90% of the hobbyists who don't quarantine and treat new fish, and end up with lots of deaths and entire tank wipe-outs. some (if not most) of the fish you buy will come in with diseases. it's just a fact of life. LFS stuff a g-zillion number of fish in their system, and even if just one of their fish has a parasite, it'd spread to every other fish as well. when you're in this hobby long enough, one thing you learn is that you have to pretend all new fish as if they have some sort of disease, and perform prophylactic treatments in a QT before placing them into DT.

now come to your question. there are many downsides to having inverts and/or LR/LS in a QT. the main issue is that you won't be able to treat a new fish if it has disease. most of the medications are not invert safe. for example, cupramine, the most common medication you will need to cure ich and velvet, is deadly to inverts and will be absorb by LR, making treatment difficult. QT should be a bare bottom tank with minimal decorations, and the only decorations should be PVC fittings for fish to hide. this is to make it treatment friendly.

once you've finished all of the fish purchases and successfully QT and treated all of them, you may definitely turn your QT into an invert tank.

 

[Ron Reefman]

I guess I'll choose to disagree with sandwi54. I'm doing the exact same thing as jahn (the OP), setting up a QT tank as an invert tank. But unlike sandwi54, I don't use my QT to treat sick fish.

A) I disagree that some or most fish from the LFS are sick or have parasites. In 7 years I've never had a sick fish.
B) To me a QT is not where you treat sick fish, that is a hospital tank. I use a QT to keep new fish (and other critters) until I'm sure they are safe. A good size and established QT is MUCH less stressful than a bare bottom, no LR glass box for 4-6 weeks.
C) I would never consider treating new fish (or even wild captured fish) prophylactically with anything. I don't think 90% of reefers do quarantine, or that 98% do prophylactic treatment of fish, and the evidence of this causing major problems is anecdotal at best.

I'm setting up a 55g DT with a 50g sump/refugium. It will have a HOB skimmer, chiller (I live in SW Florida), a powerhead, a HOB filter system, a filter sock in the sump, a UV sterilizer and some PC or t5 lights over both the DT and sump. I really enjoy inverts and I have access to some nice ones when I snorkel. So an invert tank was an obvious part of my future.

I don't see any big issues. Now we'll see what others think.

 

[Janh]

I guess I have been pretty lucky so far in that I have never had a sick fish. I have a gallon currently that is used for a qt and as Ron said, this is what I would use should a fish ever need any type of treatment. As Ron said I thought it would be nice to have the fish in a nice home for the duration of QT. Also my is in the bedroom whereas my 36 gallon is in the kitchen. If I used the latter as a QT, I would still be able to enjoy seeing the fish all the time.

Thanks for the insight, I will see what others have to say about more possible problems doing it this way.

 

[Ron Reefman]

What kind of inverts are you considering for an invert/QT set up? I set up an 85g tank for anemones, feather dusters, a pretty red macro algae and soon a big spaghetti worm. These are all guys who would have struggled or died in my DT. I'm not sure what will go in the QT set up. I've been considering some TBS ultra live rock for the sump/refugium. I'd just put it in and see what grows.

 

[Toddrtrex]

The real question is are you setting this up as an observation only tank, and not doing any treating?

 

[sandwi54]

I guess I'll choose to disagree with sandwi54. I'm doing the exact same thing as jahn (the OP), setting up a QT tank as an invert tank. But unlike sandwi54, I don't use my QT to treat sick fish.

A) I disagree that some or most fish from the LFS are sick or have parasites. In 7 years I've never had a sick fish.
B) To me a QT is not where you treat sick fish, that is a hospital tank. I use a QT to keep new fish (and other critters) until I'm sure they are safe. A good size and established QT is MUCH less stressful than a bare bottom, no LR glass box for 4-6 weeks.
C) I would never consider treating new fish (or even wild captured fish) prophylactically with anything. I don't think 90% of reefers do quarantine, or that 98% do prophylactic treatment of fish, and the evidence of this causing major problems is anecdotal at best.

I'm setting up a 55g DT with a 50g sump/refugium. It will have a HOB skimmer, chiller (I live in SW Florida), a powerhead, a HOB filter system, a filter sock in the sump, a UV sterilizer and some PC or t5 lights over both the DT and sump. I really enjoy inverts and I have access to some nice ones when I snorkel. So an invert tank was an obvious part of my future.

I don't see any big issues. Now we'll see what others think.

It's ok to disagree with me of course! that's what this forum is for right? A few comments from me.

1. QT, hospital, or whatever tanks are just terminologies. The point is to not place a new fish directly into the DT. If you set up a well-established QT with LR/LS to quarantine new fish, and treat any sick ones in another tank, that's fine. you'll just have two tanks instead of one. To me your hospital tank is a second quarantine tank. However, please think about this situation. Assuming you are buying 5 new fish, one after another. You place the first one into the quarantine tank and it has ich. then you move the fish into the hospital tank to treat for 2-3 weeks. but now you can't buy another fish for 8 weeks since ich is already in the quarantine tank and need to wait 8 weeks to complete the life cycles. this method works for people who have patience, but i bet 90% of the beginners don't have that kind of patience.

2. it really depends on where you buy your fish from. you're lucky that you never had a sick in 7 years. either you have very good LFS or you just don't have that many fish to begin with. Even the good LFS in my area will have one or two sick fish out of the hundreds, and if there is even one sick fish in the system where i'd be buying my fish from, that's enough suspicion for me to do prophylactic treatments (sorry i'm an engineer and this is the habit i acquire from my profession). You don't have to do prophylactic treatments but your quarantine period better be a lot longer (~8 weeks).

remember, i'm not talking about exceptional cases but rather common ones. people buy sick fish all the time (just monitor the fish disease forum and you'd see), especially beginners who don't know how to select healthy specimens. i'm here to help them to make the transition as smooth as possible and with minimum losses until they gain more experience and develop a sharp eye to pick good specimens. in my opinion, having just one bare-bottom, cycled QT where new fish come in, get treated and moved into DT, is the easiest for most hobbyists. at the end of the day (at least for me), it's the DT that gets looked at for aesthetic purposes, not the QT.

 

[sandwi54]

I don't think 90% of reefers do quarantine, or that 98% do prophylactic treatment of fish, and the evidence of this causing major problems is anecdotal at best.

sorry but i'll have to disagree with this. from my own experience and my friends', and seeing all the threads everyday on the disease forum with titles such as "help, my tank has ich and 3 fish already died" or "all my fish have sloughing skins and died," makes me think that disease is quite rampant. Even if only 1 out of 5 fish is sick, that's high enough percentage to warrant use of QT, considering most hobbyists have over 5 fish in one tank (unless it's a small one). that one fish could very well take out the rest of the fish if not quarantined and treated.

it certainly is a major problem. a lot of people probably just don't post about their diseased fish experience (because they don't want to be confronted and told wrong) and that's why you don't think it's a major issue.

 

[Janh]

I have not thought about what will go into the tank yet Ron, but am open to suggestions.

 

[Janh]

It's ok to disagree with me of course! that's what this forum is for right? A few comments from me.

1. QT, hospital, or whatever tanks are just terminologies. The point is to not place a new fish directly into the DT. If you set up a well-established QT with LR/LS to quarantine new fish, and treat any sick ones in another tank, that's fine. you'll just have two tanks instead of one. To me your hospital tank is a second quarantine tank. However, please think about this situation. Assuming you are buying 5 new fish, one after another. You place the first one into the quarantine tank and it has ich. then you move the fish into the hospital tank to treat for 2-3 weeks. but now you can't buy another fish for 8 weeks since ich is already in the quarantine tank and need to wait 8 weeks to complete the life cycles. this method works for people who have patience, but i bet 90% of the beginners don't have that kind of patience.

I agree it is like having 2 qt's, but wouldn't it be better to have that anyway. What if you had a new purchase in qt and a fish from dt became sick? I would not want those two fish in the same tank. I understand that if I got a fish with ich, I could possibly have a long wait before I could add another fish to the qt, but I guess if I saw something I really had to have now, I could use the second tank for it.

I don't normally make that many fish purchases. With my freshwater, once they are stocked, it is years and years before I need to get anymore fish. I am sort of hoping it will be similar with saltwater.

I guess my point is that I would like to be able to utilize the qt tank, instead of it sitting empty pretty much all the time once my tank is stocked. I appreciate your input as I had not considered the fact that ich could attach to the rock and make the tank useless for fish for a couple of months.

 

[A_Z]

I am looking into a QT tank for a 75g. I am thinking of either a 10 or 15g QT tank.

My incidental equipment would be a HOB filter, hood and some hiding spots like PVC or clay flower pots.

How do I cycle a QT tank?

are there fish that shouldn't need to be QT?

what treatments should I give to fish that appear healthy as a precaution?

 

[Janh]

I am looking into a QT tank for a 75g. I am thinking of either a 10 or 15g QT tank.

My incidental equipment would be a HOB filter, hood and some hiding spots like PVC or clay flower pots.

How do I cycle a QT tank?

are there fish that shouldn't need to be QT?

what treatments should I give to fish that appear healthy as a precaution?

Well I will share with you what little I know, you might want to start a post to get answers from more experienced people.

Every fish you get should go into QT for 4 - 6 weeks as far as I know. I never treat any fish that is not sick.

I am not sure you cycle an QT, that is what is such a nightmare about them. Constant water changes, for the time a fish is in there. Usually the QT is only set up when needed, I could be wrong about this though.

 

[sandwi54]

I agree it is like having 2 qt's, but wouldn't it be better to have that anyway. What if you had a new purchase in qt and a fish from dt became sick? I would not want those two fish in the same tank. I understand that if I got a fish with ich, I could possibly have a long wait before I could add another fish to the qt, but I guess if I saw something I really had to have now, I could use the second tank for it.

I don't normally make that many fish purchases. With my freshwater, once they are stocked, it is years and years before I need to get anymore fish. I am sort of hoping it will be similar with saltwater.

I guess my point is that I would like to be able to utilize the qt tank, instead of it sitting empty pretty much all the time once my tank is stocked. I appreciate your input as I had not considered the fact that ich could attach to the rock and make the tank useless for fish for a couple of months.

you are absolutely doing everything right, especially about having two quarantine tanks. i myself have two also. a 30 gallon for smaller fish and 55 gallon for larger ones. what i don't recommend is having live rocks and sand in a quarantine tank, unless you're quarantining inverts or the fish needs sand to live, such as some species of wrasse. having live rocks and sand makes certain treatments difficult, and in some cases, impossible. in the case of ich, you'll have to leave the tank fallow for 8 weeks or completely drying the sand and rock to kill the ich. well, i guess you can lower the salinity in the QT to 1.008 and that'll work, but why making a quarantine tank so hard to take care of? remember, the more "unnecessary" work you have to do, the less willing you're gonna wanna do it over time.

let's now talk about the case of a fish in the DT getting sick. hopefully it's not parasites since the purpose of a QT is to treat and cure any possible parasites before the fish goes into the DT. i keep a fresh filter sponge (to seed bacteria) in my DT sump at all times, and use that for the QT if my DT fish gets sick. my QT is always tucked away in my garage when not in use. it's of course your choice if you want to keep a quarantine tank up and running all the time, but i don't like the sight of a quarantine tank so i don't keep it running unless i need it.

keeping an "invert" QT is a cool idea and i'm not aware of anyone who does that, but just keep in mind that you can't run most treatments in that tank.