Radium vs 10k

[Bpb]

All things considered equal, what degree of growing power difference would one find with an xm10k on icecap ballasts (250 watt) vs radiums on m80 ballasts? Not concerned with color difference. Just sps growth speed

 

[Jeremy B.]

Substantial! Until you really have some long term experience growing sps corals under different lamps, it can be hard to judge. However, I can tell you that in the 250w and 400w range lamps the 10k XM, 6500k Iwasaki, Ushio 10k, Aqualine 10k, and a couple of others will grow sps corals like most hobbyists have never experienced before. A lot of that is because the newer hobbyists have never even considered running something that yellow to the naked eye. We are so geared towards the blue tanks now, that most just run the Radium and are done with it.

Something that I find kind of funny at times is that those who run 250w Radiums really praise the growth that they get out of them now. If you go back to 10 years ago and prior to that, most sps focused hobbyists wouldn't even consider a 250w Radium because the growth was so slow compared to other MH lamps. If you ran Radiums back then, you probably ran 400w'ers. Or you ran something 10k and heavily supplemented with actinics.

Hope this helps to give some perspective on what you're asking.

 

[jda]

I used 10K XM and Hamilton and the growth rate is more than a Radium. 250w 10k can do more than a 400w Radium, IMO. 400w 10k is even that much better.

I use 14k phoenix so that I don't have to supplement and I save that electricity. This comes at a slight cost of growth, but the stuff grows fast enough anyway. If you are going to supplement, then an ice-white 10K might be a good choice - hammy 10K was my favorite.

 

[Bpb]

Thanks guys. That helps a lot. I came from t5ho primarily and had pretty good growth. Upgraded tanks and am running a 90 gal now and got rid of the t5ho and am using 2x250 watt radiums on m80, with a BML super actinic led strip as supplement. Growth has been ok but underwhelming. I've given them 4 months now which should have been more than adeqiate adjustment. I like the color better, but my growth was better with t5ho.

I'm definitely willing to sacrifice the radium look for better growth. Kind of trying to get this tank filled in a bit but acros aren't wanting to do much. Montipora growth is decent, and lower ligjt stuff is doing well, but I am really itching for better acro growth.

Looking into trying some xm10k bulbs for 1 year to see how they do. It means updating my ballasts as well though so before I drop a few more hundred into lighting , I want to be sure it's not for nothing. I think I'm gonna give it a try. I don't mind a whiter looking tank if it means growth will improve noticeably

 

[Jeremy B.]

You do not need to change out your ballasts (M80) to run the 10k 250 XM. While the M80 is not the spec ballast for that lamp, it will still run, and make it an absolute PAR MONSTER! Here is a breakdown for you:

10k 250 XM
Spec Ballast: M58 Probe Start

M58: 12,000k 137ppfd
Electronic: 11,500k 115ppfd
M80: 9,900k 182ppfd

To give you an idea of how good the par / ppfd is running on your specific ballasts there are only three lamp / ballast combinations out there that would supplier higher par / ppfd and that includes 400w setups:

6500k 250w Iwasaki - Driven on M80 Ballasts
10k 400w XM - Driven on the PFO (Son Agro) 400w HQI Ballast
6500k 400w Iwasaki - Driven on the PFO (Son Agro) 400w HQI Ballast

If you don't mind the increased yellow you're going to get from your M80 ballasts running 10k 250 XM's, then you will have hands down one of the top 5 fastest sps growing bulb / ballast combinations out there in my opinion.

 

[Bpb]

I certainly wouldn't mind the yellowing. I would however be worried about significantly reducing the useable life of the bulbs by overdriving them so much

 

[Jeremy B.]

Keep in mind 10k lamps have a little longer spectral life than what a 20k would. With that being side you'd be looking at reducing from 11-12 months down to 8-9 months.

 

[Bpb]

Learned something new today. I knew there was par data for xm10k on m80 ballasts, but being that they're not hqi bulbs, I didn't figure it would be preferable to use them. Little research later, it's been done, a lot , with great results. But at over double the ppfd, I will need to use a couple layers of window screen an reduce the photoperiod yes?

Two layers of screen with 4 hr photoperiod, remove first layer after a month, second layer after 2, then increase photoperiod 30 minutes a week until desired virwing period?

 

[Jeremy B.]

Yes, there are multiple ways to combat the 250% PAR increase the corals will be receiving. You can raise your lights, reduce photo period, and of course use window screen as mentioned. I have found that raising your lights (if possible) helps a ton, since every 3" that you raise them up will yield a 90% decrease in output (See Sanjay's testing and how it relates using the inverse square law). You can also reduce photo period and use the screen as mentioned in your post too.

Also, keep in mind that it's going to be a huge difference to the naked eye color wise. Assuming you're buying brand new lamps it will take them about 7-10 days to burn-in and show their true color. So while at first they'll seem super yellow, that does change just slightly after that burn-in period.

Good luck, and document with photos along the way so you can see the differences you're getting.

 

[Jeremy B.]

Welles' RC Tank of the Month back in September '09 might be of some interest to you. This tank was running 10k 400w XM's supplemented by VHO super actinics and LED's...

http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index.php/current-issue/article/25-tank-of-the-month

It doesn't look like he has been around RC for a while though, so I'm not sure if this tank is still up and running or not.

 

[Bpb]

Wow. Love those colors. I've got some pretty powerful blue led supplements I'm using now so I think it'll work to tame the yellow a bit but those colors he has on that tank are fantastic. You've been quite helpful in this decision. I may pick up some used icecap ballasts this weekend since they're so cheap but either way I look forward to trying these new bulbs out. Waiting on Black Friday sales online to order though. No hurry. My radiums are only about 5 months old so they've got a lot of life left.

 

[MIKE NY]

When I first went MH I ran the monster round bulb 5500k, then 6500k and then for years ran only 10ks...the growth was great, but the colors weren't even with all the actinic supplimentation. Tried the Reeflux12ks and didn't like them either...been using Radiums for a few years now and won't go back...the growth isn't as fast, but the colors more than make up for it. I rather have the prettier tank.

 

[Wazzel]

When I ran MH/VHO I used the XM10k on an electronic ballast and URI actinics. The XM's were a little yellow when run alone, but the actinics offset it nicely.

 

[jda]

10K Hamilton is more crisp and not as yellow. PAR is good too. I liked it better than the XM.

 

[Bpb]

Well the good news about this is my wife HATES the blue look (says the tank looks like a bar light) and strongly prefers the 6500k look of my planted tank. So she will likely prefer the 10k look vs 20k. Happy wife happy life

 

[Piper27]

10k xms with actintic t5s and blue leds was my favorite lighting. When i go big again i am using it again no question. I used lumatek on hqi setting but may try another ballast next time.

 

[reeflover62]

On my first reef in 2003 I ran 2 aqualine buschke 10k with 2 vho super actinics and now with a 10k reeflux and blue leds. Cant beat the growth and the blues

 

[Wayner2]

On my first reef in 2003 I ran 2 aqualine buschke 10k with 2 vho super actinics and now with a 10k reeflux and blue leds. Cant beat the growth and the blues

What ballast are you using with the reeflux?

 

[reeflover62]

Wayner2 I run a Galaxy ballast and yes it's yellow without added blue lights. My leds come on a 7:30 off at 10:30 and MH comes on at 2:30 until 8:00, so there is still plenty of time if you like viewing a blue tank. Best of both worlds:bum:

 

[DaddyJax]

I was just about to chime in about the ReefLux 10k. I ran mine with Icecaps and got the best colors and growth. I still have some pics of the corals around if you like to some them.