Radium... why don't you make 250w DE bulbs?

C

Chyendra

Member
I get so jealous over all of the super nice tanks with radium bulbs.
I'm having such a hard time getting my SPS to color up, and I feel like I've been around the block several times going back and forth between water quality and lighting and now I'm back to lighting.

here's a pic of my reef just to get an idea of what I'm talking about.
Center02-22-11small.jpg


right now I have a 250w DE 14k phoenix, which is an ok bulb, it seems to have much better PAR than the noname 20k that came with my retrofit kit.

I essentially have this retrofit kit w/ ARO ballast seen here http://www.hellolights.com/250whlmhretrofitkithqi.aspx

I'm wondering what would be a good, affordable upgrade that would improve my SPS colors (I'm running out of $ for upgrades since it seems like I've tried everything)

Should I get a new bulb? Options I'm considering are ushio (14k or 20k) and XM (14k or 20k).
Should I add actinic supplementation? LEDS? VHO? T5's? I have a canopy on my tank, so additional bulbs could be a heat concern.
Should I upgrade my reflector? My canopy is 10" tall, so I'm a little limited in reflector size.
Should I upgrade my ballast? I've been thinking about getting an icecap ballast, would this be substantially better than my ARO ballast? (enough to make a difference in color?)

my coral aren't dark brown, more like tan, and some have pale tips, which makes me think they are getting enough light, but then why won't they color up!
 
coral example

coral example

here's an example of one of my corals. See how there's a tiny bit of coloration at the base? but the rest is tan. They seem to be growing fine. but it's been this color over a month and a half without improving.
04_01_11sm.jpg
 
Many people go through this. My opinion would be to stop worrying so much about it. Corals can do this for months and months before they decide to color up. IMO, the Phoenix is a great DE bulb. I don't think you'll need to change it. I did run mine on 250w Coralvue E-ballasts, and that might make a difference. But, honestly, it might just take quite a bit of time for the corals to respond like you want.

I did read this in your sig:
"Mixed SPS & LPS reef:45gal cube, 10gal sump/fuge w/ chaeto, mag 9.5 return w/ SCWD, 2xkoralia 1s , Aqua C remora, Via Aqua heater, 250w DE MH w/ pheonix 14k bulb & ARO ballast, phosban reactor w/ BRS GFO, RKL, ATO, Kalk drip."

While you have quite a bit of power in your return pump, I don't think the Koralia 1's are doing much for you. That might be something you want to upgrade in the future. Just a thought.

Again, I would just keep things stable and let the corals do their thing.
 
+1 to what kaser said.

In my experience the pheonix 14k is a great bulb. I actually bought a full radium setup for my frag tank after reading all the hype, but in all honesty I just couldn't figure out what everyone was raving about. It does look nice, but isn't very different than the pheonix. I would be willing to bet that even if you switched your whole setup to radiums, you wouldn't see any major change in coloration.

The best thing you can do is have patience and keep maintaining rock solid water parameters. Give your corals time and they'll start to color up. There really isn't anything wrong with your lighting, so try not to worry about it too much.

I do think adding some actinic supplementation is a good idea, and may give you that extra bit of flourescence you are looking for. I would go for Blue+ T5s or actinic powerbrite LEDs. They may help improve the overall aesthetics of the tank. I am using 250W phoenix bulbs with 2 Blue+ T5s and 2 48" actinic powerbrites and am very happy with the color and growth. I have a single 250w radium over my frag tank, and it just can't match the color combination from the multiple sources over my display. Hope this helps!
 
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When you put the corals in the tank did you acclimate them to your bulb? That might be a cause of the bleached skin.

Are you feeding your corals anything other then fish poo? ie. Roti feast / Oyster feast/ coral snow.. ect?

I also use a 14k phoenix bulb and i would have to say i love it. I was thinking about trying a 20k next time i swap it out, but i have excellent color and growth so i might stick with it.

You have some small trees there, as kaser said it takes time for them to color up. Once they become bigger / mini colonies you will see more color.

I would also suggest upping the flow. In my 40g breeder with 50lbs of LR i have 2-Koralia#2 / 1-Koralia#3 / 1 random pump along the back side ~400gph / and a mag 9.5 turned down 25% as my return.
 
Thanks for all the responses, I will try to answer some questions.

Yes I acclimated my corals to the light when I bought the new pheonix bulb 3 months ago by putting layers of screen over the glass lid (it took 2 months to acclimate them and I stil lost a frag due to bleaching but all the others seem fine).

I do feed my corals a mix of rod's coral formula, sea chem reef plus (amino acids), and DT's Phytoplankton, which I just ran out of so I switched to TLF Marine snow to see if it would work better. My fish get mysis, cyclopeze, and rarely flake depending on the day.

I switched from 2-part dosing to kalk dosing about a month ago and it's so much easier. My ph is more stable now. My ph runs 7.95-8.05, Ca 470-485, alk 9.5-10.5, mag ~1400. I use BRS Mag supplement.

I've been trying to save up for a MP10, but I'm not sure it would make much of a difference. I see so many nice tanks using vortechs, but I don't want to throw away $200 on something that won't help my corals much when I could have upgraded my lighting with some actinic LEDS for example. What do you guys think?

Also, do you think my toadstool leather could be keeping my SPS from coloring up? I run carbon 24/7 in a sock in my sump and change it every couple weeks.
 
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I wouldn't change a thing. Many of the corals are still frags. They've gone through a lot being fragged and placed in your tank to acclimate. Many of mine added over a year ago are just now showing signs of coloration. Sometimes they start off brown, sometimes they are pale. Just keep things stable, bow to the SPS gods and wait it out.

A 20k Radium will not flip a switch and turn things around. I've seen some incredible colors in 10k tanks that were so vivid they would have looked fake if it weren't for the polyps waving in the current. Lighting is one small piece of the puzzle. Keep the tank slightly dirty with some measurable nitrate and they should color up for you in time. Let them encrust and start budding. SPS especially need time to build their base before they grow up and out. At least this has been my experience.
 
I run 400w RADIUM on the display but my small 18"x18" frag tank I run a phoneix 14k and just added 8 royal blue LEDs. The MH runs for 6.5hrs now and the LEDS 11hrs. Colors seem pretty good.
 
9.5-10.5 is more of a weekly swing. It's been testing in that range for about a month, usually in the 9.6-9.9 range, sometimes higher sometimes lower.

Thanks for all your imput, I can understand I guess if they just need more time *sigh* it's hard to be patient when I'm only going to be in this apartment another year and I'll have to tear everything apart to move after that.

BUT if there's anything I can do in the meantime that might help.... Do people think that adding some supplemental LEDS would be a better investment than an MP10?
 
Hi, I use Giesemann 20K, but you can also go with there 13.5k, these are great bulbs, my 90 gal has 4 T5's all Giesemann with 2 of them actinic, and two of them as actinic plus, really brings out the SPS corals color. The 2 250 watts DE MH are the 20K Giesemann, well worth the money. This is a SPS only setup.

I have gotten several corals from others that were turning brown and not colored up, after a couple of days the color is coming back and a week later, they are showing full color. I run my T5's 10 hours and the MH 6 hrs a day.
 
Chyendra I have the same issue as you. I loose color and cant get it back, many of my sps look like yours, green or brown, grow well but lack color. I also used a 250w DE Phoenix. I am now using a 20k Oddysea as the PAR is the same as a Phoenix, tested it myself. The color of the bulbs is almost the same as well. I have been struggling to get my sps to color up for several months now. At this point I am just letting the tank be and doing regular maintenance, keeping things supper stable. I also increased feeding a little. Seeing if this will help, time.
 
I personally hate phoenix bulbs. Especially on a e-ballast. All these people defending them need to post a FTS of the tank with these lights, also stating what ballast they are running.

IMO switch to xm's 20K's. I use them on a Galaxy e-ballast, and love their color.
 
Pic Of my tank with the Phoenix 14k run on an Icecap E ballast. PAR is great with this setup and like I said the Oddysea 20k is 98% identical to the Phoenix 14k.
newcoralshots009.jpg

XM 20ks are great bulbs. E ballasts are hand down the best ballast to run ANY style MH bulb. The run the bulbs at a true 250w not under or over driving them and shortening their life, will fire any SE and DE bulb, run cooler and are more energy efficient.
Here is my tank with the Oddysea 20K same ballast and reflector.
sump026.jpg
 
Thanks for all the suggestions,

Allsps40, I've been watching your threads to see if you've made any progress on coloring up your SPS, since we do seem to have the same problem/similar systems. I'll keep checking in with you.

I would love to see pics of those of you useing XM 20k and Giesemann 20k to see how blue it is with out supplementation. It seems like you both use actinic supplements in addition to the 20k and I'm not looking for a crazy blue look, just more colorful corals.
 
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