Rainbow BTA killed clowns?

[jjwill_sdsu]

Hi all,
So I've been working on stocking a SC Aquariums 50 gallon cube as hopefully a clownfish/anemone tank. I bought two picasso clowns about three weeks ago. The smaller of the two had looked a little beat up around his fins the first few days in his new home, but he turned the corner to recovery and everyone looked like they were doing fine as of last week. So I bought a rainbow bubble tip anemone last Saturday. The smaller of the two clownfish dove right into the BTA after I put it in (the larger stayed away), but I noticed that a few hours later the smaller one was swimming funny. Over the course of the next 24-36 hours, he went downhill - swimming just off the rocks like his swim bladder couldn't keep him up, then laying on the sand bed against the rocks, and then he was dead by the next morning. Being the smaller one and a bit banged up when I was first got him, I figured perhaps he just didn't have his slime coat built up to protect him from the BTA. However, last night the larger one had finally started hanging around the BTA (I didn't see him actually go in), and then after a few hours a similar picture as the first clownfish... swimming funny and wasn't interested in food, then sitting just off the rocks, and this morning he's completely MIA so I'm assuming he's dead in the rockwork somewhere.

I didn't think BTA's were supposed to be that dangerous to clowns or other fish in general, but this seems too much for coincidence. These were the first and only fish in the tank along with some blue legged hermits, snails, and two monti frags. I went to test the water, and of course my Hannah checkers had the batteries melt down inside of them after a few years in storage, so I still have to pick up some test kits today to confirm or test at the fish store. But still, they were looking fine prior to the addition of the BTA, so I have a hard time believing it would be just due to water quality. Has anyone seen something similar to this before with BTAs (BTA stings clownfish but doesn't kill it for 12-36 hours later)?

I'm at a loss of what to do at this point. The fish store owner had never heard of something like this before. I don't know whether I can even try new fish or if I need to try and get the BTA out of the tank (probably the most problematic of my options) before I try again. Any insights or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

 

[davocean]

Well, your clown could have been sick already, but it is possible that it may not have adapted to the nems sting cells and could have been harmed, it's a guess at this point, but either is possible.
This is why many of us do not advise forcing close proximity w/ new clowns/nem, not that you did that but they do need to adapt to sting cells and this seems more so w/ non natural host nems.

 

[Nem_guy]

I highly doubt that was the bubble anemone that doesn't happen bubbles will rarely attack non hosting fish and never attack hosting clowns they could've been sick and if they were not QTd first then you should try that with your next pair I've had around 200 clown Fish with mixed anemones even non hosting anemones and never had one fatally harm a clown


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[davocean]

Well, BTA's never "attack" anything, like all anemone's they are opportunistic feeders, they take in what's weak or accidentally goes into them or touches them, but there have been many reports of anemone's harming even clowns if they have not adapted to that anemone's sting yet, situations like forced hosting or enclosed in too close of quarters before ready.

 

[jjwill_sdsu]

Would you consider a lightly stocked 50 gallon cube forced hosting? How else could I adapt the clowns/anemone to each other?

All water parameters checked out fine at the LFS. According to the owner, those clowns had been in the store several weeks, and then they spent 2+ weeks as the lone inhabitants of my tank, so I still have trouble thinking it was a QT/sick fish issue. Especially since both went from 100% to dead so quickly. Not discounting anyone's ideas, just frustrated/uncertain how to proceed from here and scared about putting another healthy pair of clownfish (even after Qt) in as a test.

 

[Nem_guy]

Well what I do for every pair of clown fish is let them sit in a 10 gallon for a week get them eating and then when I feel they're ready I introduce them to one of my anemones with a clear tube and they host right away no problem even tank bread clowns.


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[davocean]

Would you consider a lightly stocked 50 gallon cube forced hosting? How else could I adapt the clowns/anemone to each other?

All water parameters checked out fine at the LFS. According to the owner, those clowns had been in the store several weeks, and then they spent 2+ weeks as the lone inhabitants of my tank, so I still have trouble thinking it was a QT/sick fish issue. Especially since both went from 100% to dead so quickly. Not discounting anyone's ideas, just frustrated/uncertain how to proceed from here and scared about putting another healthy pair of clownfish (even after Qt) in as a test.

I would not say your issue is too close of quarters I was just using that as an example more so in replying to the previous comment/poster.
It's hard to say what happened on your end, my first guess would be a sick clown regardless of what LFS says, no way they can spot every fish.
I'd just get an appropriate mate and try again.

 

[davocean]

Well what I do for every pair of clown fish is let them sit in a 10 gallon for a week get them eating and then when I feel they're ready I introduce them to one of my anemones with a clear tube and they host right away no problem even tank bread clowns.


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The clear tube trick to force close proximity, while it may work many times there are times it does not, so just be aware.
It's one of my own peeves when people encourage others to do this, guess it just depends on how much you like your clowns, vs how much patience you have, and how lucky you are.
I would never do this w/ clowns of monetary or sentimental value, but then I also select a natural host match, so I never need to even think about having to do this, a natural match usually means immediate hosting.

 

[jjwill_sdsu]

I would not say your issue is too close of quarters I was just using that as an example more so in replying to the previous comment/poster.
It's hard to say what happened on your end, my first guess would be a sick clown regardless of what LFS says, no way they can spot every fish.
I'd just get an appropriate mate and try again.

Yeah, I don't know if you caught it in my first thread, but the bigger clown that looked great from Day 1 and didn't venture near the BTA at first started going down the same quick deterioration path late yesterday and was last seen lying down in the rockwork breathing heavily. I guess it's hard to say whether he decided to check out the BTA yesterday and got lethally stung or if they both ended up getting some disease that just manifested or spread to the bigger one 4-5 days later.

 

[jjwill_sdsu]

The clear tube trick to force close proximity, while it may work many times there are times it does not, so just be aware.
It's one of my own peeves when people encourage others to do this, guess it just depends on how much you like your clowns, vs how much patience you have, and how lucky you are.
I would never do this w/ clowns of monetary or sentimental value, but then I also select a natural host match, so I never need to even think about having to do this, a natural match usually means immediate hosting.

Yup, I was in no rush to get them to host. In fact, I put the anemone on the opposite side of the tank from the corner from where the clowns were hanging out to that point, but the smaller one sought out the BTA as soon as I put it in the tank and started diving into it. (And a few hours later was when everything started going downhill for my week... )