Rant about one of our LFS...

[Cdodge1]

So I have been in this shop maybe a dozen times. I always try to get up-sold on some supplement I don't need...etc. Corals are sometimes WAY over priced. For example: Some kind of blue acro, nothing special, .5" frag was $150 he told me lol. I laughed. I remembered seeing an identical coral in another store for $40 .

Whatever, he thinks I'm a chump. They are here to make money right? I press onward. I just want to find a couple nice frags to put in my tank and go home.

This whole $150 for a 0.5" frag is insane, I don't care what kind it is. Fresh cuts too, these guys weren't even trying!

Moving on...

They had a lot of frag tank sections with no prices, just labeled "Ask"

...What the heck!? Why not just include a price? Why is it some big secret? It wouldn't even bother me that much if when I asked, I got an immediate, confident answer, as if the price was just written down somewhere else. But instead they just him and haw, then make an offer like they are just throwing out some price they think sounds right...

I ask about a .75" frag of red planet in the "ask" section.

Sales guy: " Hmmmmmmmmmm.......... I can do $60 for that frag."
Me: " Well what about the even bigger frag of red planet in the $20 section? Haha or that even bigger one in the $30 section?"
Sales guy: "oh, uh stammer stammer, must've been in the wrong...blah blah"
:mad2::mad2::mad2:

This happens at least two more times where he doubles or even triples the price of a frag when I ask about it...

I hope I am communicating my point...just put a price on the dang coral frags! When I ask how much something is, don't sit there like you're thinking of how big of a sucker I am & what price you can charge and get away with. That plus blatantly lying about some $150 frag...cmon'. Seriously? I understand LFS are in the business of making money, but just be fair & honest. Is that too much to ask?


End rant. Thanks for listening.



TL;DR: LFS store has annoying salesmen who behave like lying, cheating, snakes.

 

[eg8r210]

Why go through all of that and not tell people which LFS to look out for?

 

[Rodmad]

I don't get the whole "ask" thing either. Also makes me feel like the price will depend on who's asking and who's answering it. In their defense the only other thing that I think why they have these "ask" tanks is because sometimes there's all different kinds of corals in random order and obviously one might be worth than the next one.

I think that lrs should arrange the corals so they may price everything out without the need to guess or give different prices on the same pieces at different times of the day.

 

[Trueno22]

s.i.t.c. ?

 

[Cdodge1]

Why go through all of that and not tell people which LFS to look out for?

Right, TopShelf Aquatics. If you do go in, deal with Mitchell. He seems to be the most fair about prices.

 

[Trueno22]

Wow that is surprising, but I have never bought SPS from there. They are always more than fair with the price of zoas.

 

[ARVERLY]

When I read the first post, I immediately knew it was Top Shelf! I get the same thing every time I go there haha

 

[Trueno22]

I honestly thought he was going to say sea in the city cause it happened to me there. Was offered some zoas at 40 a head and the next day saw the same ones 40 for a whole 4 polyp frag on their site.

 

[eg8r210]

I find the "ask" section a double edged sword. To be honest it doesn't matter what they do, there will always be people on the forums complaining. You are either put off by the "ask" or put off by the price. Some people see "some kind of blue acro" and have no idea what they are looking at. It might be a normal cali blue tort, might be a deepwater piece, could be a true Oregon tort but some people will only see some kind of blue acro. Sure they are all priced differently. If they put a huge price like $150 and the customer doesn't bother to ask why it is so expensive and just moves on then the LFS doesn't have the chance to explain why it costs so much more than another kind of blue acro.

I see the OP complained about a fresh cut but fresh cut acros are nothing to complain about if you are picking it up in the store. Many people with acros would 100% prefer a fresh cut because the chance of importing AEFW eggs is close to zero. In the past 5 years in this hobby the only fresh cuts I have ever had a problem with were frags that were literally cut, glued, bagged and shipped. My belief is that the glue off gassed in the bag and caused a less than desirable environment. I can't remember having any problems with fresh cut directly from an LFS or from a fellow hobbyist. I have fragged 100s of sps for people while they watched and haven't had anyone complain.

I do agree a 1/2" frag sucks. To me this is capitalism at its worst. I get the corals are pricey, grow slow, need to chop up and get back initial outlay, blah blah blah but I really wish it would end. Alex from TS posted an auction on FB one time and said a frag was an inch and based on the image there is no way it was an inch. Another person chimed in saying a macro lens will distort the height of the frag but this was so far off I just let it go not believing a single word. All their other corals have looked on par with size mentioned and colors. I feel the market drives sales and if people continue to buy these baby sized pieces then they will continue to be sold.

I rather enjoy chatting with some of the guys from TS and I really dig the fact that they are out seeking some extremely high end (cost way too much) sps. I never go in that store, for completely unrelated reason, but those few times I am there I always check out the ridiculously high priced items. I see them online and love the fact that if I want to see them first hand before I buy then I can head up to TS and they usually will have a frag/mini colony available to view. When I go in that store I already know what price I can get the corals for online and I always bounce that price off what the local price is going for.

 

[Cdodge1]

I've bought $100+ frags before. Because they were unique specimens. I made no complaint about the price. They were encrusting, healthy, and vibrant. So when I see an apparent run-of-mill microscopic frag for $150 that just sends off a red flag. Well the $150 frag, he explained, had come from a colony they've been growing for months and was super hardy, and grew really fast... etc. That just didn't add up in my mind as to why it was $150 for a minuscule frag. To me, there was no need to ask for a reason as to why it was so expensive...because the only reason was "they felt like it". I could have been wrong, but normally super-hardy-fast-growing corals aren't all that pricey.

I agree someone new to the hobby could easily hop on a forum and complain about much these fuzzy sticks cost... and have no idea what they are talking about...I'm just not one of them.

The whole "Ask" section doesn't need to exist in my opinion. there were $20,$30,$60,$80 etc. rows in the frag tanks...why not just organize the frags accordingly?

I complained about fresh cuts because a few reasons. IME they are more prone the RTN or other disease. AEFW shouldn't even be present in the store... so they shouldn't be on fresh cuts or healed cuts. If a customer asks for a fresh cut, that's is fine. It's a free country lol, I just don't like fresh cuts. In theory if your parameters are good blah blah blah you won't have issues with RTN, but coral is so finicky I just like to lessen that risk by getting an encrusting frag. That's my opinion and theory on that matter.

 

[Cdodge1]

When I read the first post, I immediately knew it was Top Shelf! I get the same thing every time I go there haha

Lol I would have just walked out if it hadn't been for Mitch. He seems like good people. But every time it's like a battle just to get something there. I'm normally really excited to get some new frags! But by the time I walked out with a handful of nice frags, I just felt exhausted and upset. Ridiculous lol!!

Wow that is surprising, but I have never bought SPS from there. They are always more than fair with the price of zoas.

I've purchased a lot of zoas there as well. Some are fair, some are pricey in my experience. I guess you have to know what X zoa is going for locally, before you can say if its fair or not.

I honestly thought he was going to say sea in the city cause it happened to me there. Was offered some zoas at 40 a head and the next day saw the same ones 40 for a whole 4 polyp frag on their site.

I've been once or twice, but never got anything... but that's a total rip off :mad2:

 

[Trueno22]

I've been once or twice, but never got anything... but that's a total rip off :mad2:

Yeah after that I always checked on their online site for prices on anything I saw that I liked.

 

[Tenshoa]

My belief is that the glue off gassed in the bag and caused a less than desirable environment.

This.

AEFW shouldn't even be present in the store... so they shouldn't be on fresh cuts or healed cuts.

Unfortunately, this is impossible to guarantee. In order for this to happen, each store would have to QT every piece they get and treat them weekly, via dipping, for 5-6 weeks and even then, there's no guarantee. Especially when they purchase colonies that are attached to rocks. Nor is this feasible from a business perspective. It is the hobbyists responsibility to do so.

 

[eg8r210]

...

I agree someone new to the hobby could easily hop on a forum and complain about much these fuzzy sticks cost... and have no idea what they are talking about...I'm just not one of them.

...

I complained about fresh cuts because a few reasons. IME they are more prone the RTN or other disease. AEFW shouldn't even be present in the store...

You might not be as experienced as you think you are. There isn't a store in town that is aefw free. If they say they are then they aren't being honest.

What was the run of the mill blue acro?

 

[IM24TankTeam]

We have bought a lot of coral from them and have had great experiences with them. I wouldn't have guessed it was Top Shelf by a long shot.

 

[Sagz70]

I was thinking it was this store too when I read what you said... Something similar has happened to me in the past.

 

[eg8r210]

With this many people saying the same thing about this store it is tough to ignore.

 

[Cdodge1]

What was the run of the mill blue acro?

Sorry, I'm not here to argue. Allow me to start over. While starting this thread, I knew I was ticked off. I just couldn't articulate it in a reasonable manner, thus including additional gripes that weren't good points to include.

I shouldn't bash anyone for their pricing of corals and livestock. Some places are cheaper, others pricier. It's life. It's business. What I am truly upset about was the inconsistency in their pricing. It could have been a few causes of this. All equally upsetting:
1. He didn't know and was guess
2. Purposely trying to rip me off
3. Improper management
....etc. I'm sure you understand my point here.

Okay, to your point, the $150 frag was a tricolor acro: Green base, purple tips, green polyps. The first thing he did when I walked in the store was ask me if I kept SPS. After replying yes, he waved me over to look at this particular tricolor frag. I wasn't really interested in it but he pointed it out and tried to sell it to me. He also followed with that it was a very hardy and fast growing coral. Typically, hardy and fast growing aren't associated with super high end corals. But in this situation, it was incorrect for me to assume this much. I didn't ask much about it either. There may have just as well been a special reason as to why it was so pricey. I normally wouldn't have thought twice about it (I just wasn't interested in the coral). However, after the same gentlemen began feeding me some inconsistent & unfair pricing, I began to think he was trying to rip me off with the first coral ($150 frag of tricolor acro) he tried to sell me as well.

You might not be as experienced as you think you are. There isn't a store in town that is aefw free. If they say they are then they aren't being honest.

I'll quote myself here...
" AEFW shouldn't even be present in the store... so they shouldn't be on fresh cuts or healed cuts."
This is a 100% accurate statement. I didn't say that any store in town was AEFW free, did I? Hence your comment about my experience is totally irrelevant. But please do explain why exactly parasites would not be on a freshly cut frag if it were to come out of a parasite infested tank...I don't get the logic there. Exactly how long do you think it takes for parasites to find a coral?

I'm no expert. Nor have I ever claimed to be. However, my experience level isn't the matter at hand here. It does not require an expert reef keeper to recognize poor customer service and inconsistent/ unfair pricing.

 

[Cdodge1]

Unfortunately, this is impossible to guarantee. In order for this to happen, each store would have to QT every piece they get and treat them weekly, via dipping, for 5-6 weeks and even then, there's no guarantee. Especially when they purchase colonies that are attached to rocks. Nor is this feasible from a business perspective. It is the hobbyists responsibility to do so.

Respectfully,

If we pay a premium for coral. Any LFS in our area has the means to properly treat & quarantine coral. More so than anyone in this hobby. It is entirely feasible to do. Livestock should be quarantined and treated before it ever meets the sales floor. People who stick up for fish stores with lazy/ poor practices only encourage this behavior.

I understand most people assume that it is the hobbyists responsibility, but in reality it is a responsibility of the LFS that they negate by passing it on to the hobbyist.

It is difficult to make a fair comparison, but consider this. If you purchase fruit from a store. After a few days, you discover that that fruit had a worm in it and it has now laid eggs in the rest of your fruit and it's all ruined. I can guarantee that your first thought is not "darn it, I shoulda kept it away from the rest of the fruit and sprayed it with extra pesticide". You'd be rightfully upset at the store for allowing such poor quality control. There is no difference with LFS! Our paradigm of "It's the hobbyists responsibility" is flawed. We have all come to accept this, because we buy into the BS excuses from the supplier. It will take too much space, it'll cost too much, it will be a lengthy process, etc...all are weak excuses made to abdicate responsibility for their product.

I understand that this may not change your mind on the matter. However I think there needs to be a push for better quality & pest free livestock.

 

[Tenshoa]

Respectfully,

If we pay a premium for coral. Any LFS in our area has the means to properly treat & quarantine coral. More so than anyone in this hobby. It is entirely feasible to do. Livestock should be quarantined and treated before it ever meets the sales floor. People who stick up for fish stores with lazy/ poor practices only encourage this behavior.

I understand most people assume that it is the hobbyists responsibility, but in reality it is a responsibility of the LFS that they negate by passing it on to the hobbyist.

It is difficult to make a fair comparison, but consider this. If you purchase fruit from a store. After a few days, you discover that that fruit had a worm in it and it has now laid eggs in the rest of your fruit and it's all ruined. I can guarantee that your first thought is not "darn it, I shoulda kept it away from the rest of the fruit and sprayed it with extra pesticide". You'd be rightfully upset at the store for allowing such poor quality control. There is no difference with LFS! Our paradigm of "It's the hobbyists responsibility" is flawed. We have all come to accept this, because we buy into the BS excuses from the supplier. It will take too much space, it'll cost too much, it will be a lengthy process, etc...all are weak excuses made to abdicate responsibility for their product.

I understand that this may not change your mind on the matter. However I think there needs to be a push for better quality & pest free livestock.

That's a tough comparison to make as fruit doesn't need to be quarantined for several weeks to be treated. It's treated with pesticides in the field where it's grown.

The reason is that from a financial position, for a store to be able to "float" that kind of money for that kind of time period is unrealistic and unsustainable from a practical point of view. (I'm a business development manager).

Consider what the cost of corals would be if theoretically, a store was able to do this. Consider the cost of fruit, if the farmers and/or stores couldn't sell their livestock for 6 weeks after harvesting (never mind the lack of stock and assortment). I'm not going to get into details of a business plan to demonstrate, but I think you get the picture.

Now if people were wiling to pay 200-500% more (at least), I'm sure the stores wouldn't mind doing this for you. But my guess would be that given one store practicing this method versus everyone else, customers are going to save themselves the money and take the extra time to dip them on their own (or take their chances).

It's one of those "in a perfect world..." Scenarios.