REALLY struggling to keep coral... suggestions!?!

[Broadfield]

Issue

I cannot keep LPS or SPS and slightly struggling with some softies.

I have hesitated to even make a post about this for months... trying to figure it out on my own via research on the forums, asking others in the field and plain old trial and error. I have done tons of research, probably too much to be honest with you... it's only making me more unsure.

I will give you as much info as possible about my current setup and the various things I have tried, changed etc. The tank has been up and running for 9 months.


Current Setup

• Tank: Innovative Marine Fusion Micro 30L 36" x 11" x 13"
• Lighting: (2) Aqua Illuminations Vega Color 8" AWL (have tried various intensities giving it a month at a time)
• Skimmer: Innovative Marine Ghose Mid-Size
• Circulation: (2) MP10W's and 476 gallon/hr main pump.
• Tank Controller: Apex Gold with temp, pH, salinity, ORP, WXM Vortech controller, AWM light controller.
• Dosing: 2-part BRS with dosing pumps through Apex
• ATO: Innovative Marine
• Water Changes: Every week 10% (BRS 5-stage RO/DI) change filters at least once/year. TDS never reads anything but 0.00
• Filtration: I only use the yellow particulate sponge that comes with tank on each overflow. I rinse these every 1-2 weeks.
• Substrate: 1-1/2" of crushed coral
• Liverock: Properly cured/seeded Marco Dry Rock

Parameters

• Temp: 77.3 - 78.3 (Tested with Apex probe)
• pH: 8.05 - 8.25 (Tested with Apex probe)
• ORP: 310 - 335 (Tested with Apex probe)... still not really sure how to utilize this reading.
• Salinity: 35 (Tested with Apex probe)
• Calcium: 420 - 440 (Tested with Hanna Checker)
• Alkalinity: 8 (Tested with Hanna Checker) I have tried running Alk anywhere from 7.5 - 10 over the last several months
• Magnesium: 1300 - 1400 (Tested with Red Sea)
• Phosphate: 0.00 (Tested with Hanna Checker LR)
• Nitrate: 0.00 (Tested with Red Sea)
• Nitrite: 0.00 (Tested with Hanna Checker ULR)

Notes

• I have a very slight amount of short green hair algae tuffs here and there. Never really gets more than that. Not even enough to easily spot it in the tank.
• I grow purple coralline algae without issue. All rock work and MP10's are purpled up.

Fish I am currently overstocked thinking that maybe the tank was "too" clean. All fish are thriving and doing well together. This set of fish have been in the tank together for 5 months.

• (3) Yellow tail damsels
• (1) Hawk fish
• (1) six-line wrasse
• (1) cleaner shrimp
• (1) sexy shrimp
• (1) brittle star
• (-) a few snails

Corals that have survived the life of the tank

• Green polyp leather
• GSP
• Various zoa
• Various pipe organ coral
• Purple cauliflower coral
• Toadstool leather ***although for the last 6 weeks it hasn't really had polyp extension. The "arms" will come out a little, but the polyp at the end doesn't open. I also see a couple of stringy white things from time-to-time coming out of the openings where the arm/polyp would extend from. At the end of the stringy white thing is always something.. maybe a shriveled polyp, can't really make it out!?! I have tried Googling this with no luck. When this is occurring, there is zero polyp extension on the entire coral***

Ironically, all of these corals were transferred from a previous tank into this completely new tank, new rock, substrate, skimmer etc. I even had this same LPS/SPS issue with the old tank... which was an Innovative Marine 24 gallon. I had that tank up and running for about a year.

As you can see, nothing very cool in the coral department. And are pretty much un-killable.

Corals that I have tried and the outcome

I have tried virtually everything at one point or another. Over the last 6-7 months I have tried close to 100 frags. Various Montis, Acroporas, Duncans, Acans, Gonis, Favias, Stylos, Pocilloporas, Alveoporas, Euphyllias, Turbinarias, Trachyphyllias and others that have failed... even Ricordeas and other softies.

Most LPS simply "fade" away after I get them. They completely open up once in the tank and look good for a few days. Then they slowly recede and just shrivel up smaller and smaller until the polyp(s) is just gone. This usually takes about a month or so. Sometimes longer, sometimes less. Euphyllias always end up with polyp bailout.

SPS have good polyp extension for a few days then slowly come out less and less. Then I usually get RTN or STN.

I have specifically tried a ton of Acan frags... they are one of my favorites. So I really would like to focus on these at the moment. When I get the frag, the polyps are large and fluffy for a few days. Then they very slowly get smaller and smaller over a few weeks... exposing more and more of the skeleton. The best I can describe is that they simply shrink in size until there isn't much left. Their color stays 100% perfect throughout this process. Even when there is next to nothing left of the coral, its color is VERY vivid. I feed them a couple times/week... Reef-Roids and/or mysis shrimp. They are always located on the sand bed. I have tried different light intensities, for a couple of weeks at a time, and see absolutely zero difference. I have gone to each extreme and everywhere in between. Mp10's are set up at each end of the tank. One towards the back and the opposite one towards the front. I run 60% - 80% Reef Crest mode in anti-sync mode. My rock work is setup linear so there is room the length of the tank in the front and the back. So I have really good water circulation. I have tried lower settings, higher settings... same results. My Acans are located near the ends where flow is the least. But have tried them in different locations to see if I can get more life out of them.

I have a couple of Florida Ricordea frags that have diminished to about the diameter of a pencil eraser. They still have full color... they are just tiny as can be. I don't get it?!?

It doesn't seem to matter if I dip them, how I acclimate them etc... same outcome every time.

 

[zachfishman]

Tagging along. I am facing a similar issue. Newly added corals look fine, but quickly lose color and all polyp extension. My LPS and zoas are in a kind of stasis (not dying, not growing, look shabby), and all my SPS are dying. My params are similar to yours, nothing odd.

Have you double checked your salinity against a calibrated refractometer? If it's off somehow that could explain why your fish are doing great but not your corals.

 

[Broadfield]

Tagging along. I am facing a similar issue. Newly added corals look fine, but quickly lose color and all polyp extension. My LPS and zoas are in a kind of stasis (not dying, not growing, look shabby), and all my SPS are dying. My params are similar to yours, nothing odd.

Have you double checked your salinity against a calibrated refractometer? If it's off somehow that could explain why your fish are doing great but not your corals.

Yes, I have checked it against a refractometer. I even re-calibrated the Apex probe just to be sure.

Yes, it seems as though we are both struggling... although my coral stay vivid and rich in color.

 

[zachfishman]

Out of curiosity, what do you store your RODI water in? (top off and mixing reservoirs)

 

[Grandlotus]

Water quality looks good, so then it has to be one or both of the other big 2: light or flow.

The overstocking could also be a problem. I would suggest going down to 2-3 fish with a CUC/Cleaner Shrimp.

Possible that the PO4 is reading zero because you have GHA issues.

Do you run Carbon or GFO?

 

[Broadfield]

Out of curiosity, what do you store your RODI water in? (top off and mixing reservoirs)

That's a really good question... something that I never would of thought of. That's why I posted... to get some more brain power behind this problem.

I store it in acrylic "tanks"... the ones you get at Petco to house small fish, reptiles etc.

 

[chefbill]

Probably not THE cause, but maybe a contributing factor: crushed coral substrate isn't used much anymore because it is a detritus trap. But you are reading zeros, so....

Have you dipped a dead frag? There may be some parasite you are overlooking.

Electric current bleed is the only other obvious thing I can think of.

 

[Broadfield]

Water quality looks good, so then it has to be one or both of the other big 2: light or flow.

The overstocking could also be a problem. I would suggest going down to 2-3 fish with a CUC/Cleaner Shrimp.

Possible that the PO4 is reading zero because you have GHA issues.

Do you run Carbon or GFO?

So, I use to run both carbon and GFO in reactors... but I removed them from the tank to try and see if it would improve my problems. I have had them offline for about three months and it seems to have made it better without them... but not much. At one point I had zero fish in the tank for about a month... didn't seem to change anything. I had hermits in the tank, but they were always crawling all over my Acans, so I moved them to a friend's tank. It's to a point where I'm trying anything.

 

[zachfishman]

That's a really good question... something that I never would of thought of. That's why I posted... to get some more brain power behind this problem.

I store it in acrylic "tanks"... the ones you get at Petco to house small fish, reptiles etc.

Acrylic is fine. Personally I'm beginning to wonder if my Container Store plastic sump is leaching harmful chemicals into my system...

 

[chefbill]

and is that 30long or 30litre? NVM at 36" can't be litres

 

[Broadfield]

and is that 30long or 30litre?

It's a 30 gallon... the "30L" is simply the model #.

 

[CStrickland]

Just to be clear, when you say you have tried diff ways of acclimating them, that includes slowly ramping up the lights, right? Sometimes people just mean different methods of drip when they say that, and those Vegas are pretty strong.

 

[Broadfield]

Just to be clear, when you say you have tried diff ways of acclimating them, that includes slowly ramping up the lights, right? Sometimes people just mean different methods of drip when they say that, and those Vegas are pretty strong.

Yes sir, I have tried just starting out at about 25% blues and around 12% whites and just keeping them there for a month. Unless that's too much light overall and I should be lower than that for my max. But the tank seems pretty dim below 25%. I should note that the lights are 8" AWL. Regardless, the Acans suffer the same fate every time.

 

[Nano sapiens]

Have you tried turning off the skimmer? Looks like you aren't using GAC or GFO, correct?

Since you are showing '0' NO3 or PO4 on the test kits (and have little macro algae which would suck up these nutrients) you can try an increase in available water borne nutrients. See what happens when nitrates get to ~5 and PO4 gets to 0.03 or so.

A more stable alkalinity level will be helpful, too, to all stony corals (especially SPS such as Acros).

A full tank pic would be helpful.

 

[Broadfield]

Have you tried turning off the skimmer? Looks like you aren't using GAC or GFO, correct?

Since you are showing '0' NO3 or PO4 on the test kits (and have little macro algae) you can try an increase in available water borne nutrients. See what happens when nitrates get to ~5 and PO4 gets to 0.03 or so.

A more stable alkalinity level will be helpful, too, to all stony corals (especially SPS such as Acros).

That was going to be my next thing to try, but since I had a little GHA, I thought I should keep it online. But I'm ready to try anything at this point!

I should of been more clear on my Alk. It's very steady around 8... but I have tried the range I posted in the previous months just to see if it had any affect.

 

[Nano sapiens]

That was going to be my next thing to try, but since I had a little GHA, I thought I should keep it online. But I'm ready to try anything at this point!

LPS in partiuclar like nutrients in the water. Last year I got to see this first hand in Palau as the highest concentration of LPS by far was in lagoonal type environments that received nutrient laden flow near mangrove swamps.

I should of been more clear on my Alk. It's very steady around 8... but I have tried the range I posted in the previous months just to see if it had any affect.

Ok, stable alk within that range would be fine for LPS and okay for most SPS.

 

[Broadfield]

LPS in partiuclar like nutrients in the water. Last year I got to see this first hand in Palau as the highest concentration of LPS by far was in lagoonal type environments that received nutrient laden flow near mangrove swamps.



Ok, stable alk within that range would be fine for LPS and okay for most SPS.

F it, taking the skimmer offline for a month to see what happens. In your opinion, do you think I need to run the carbon or GFO if the skimmer is off?

 

[Broadfield]

Probably not THE cause, but maybe a contributing factor: crushed coral substrate isn't used much anymore because it is a detritus trap. But you are reading zeros, so....

Have you dipped a dead frag? There may be some parasite you are overlooking.

Electric current bleed is the only other obvious thing I can think of.

Sorry, I'm not sure why I put crushed coral. It's Caribsea Aragonite

 

[salty joe]

Do you think it'd be worthwhile to test for copper?

 

[Mcgeezer]

all living things, coral included, need a small amount of phosphate to survive. That could be your biggest issue since you read zero on a Hanna checker.

My guess besides that is some type of contaminant entering the system.