REALLY struggling to keep coral... suggestions!?!
- Thread starter Broadfield
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CStrickland
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Zero on a Hanna LR is more accurately stated as <.01 inorganic phos (with a margin of .04ppm +-4% @ 77 degrees f).
To think that equates to a phos deprived system would not really be true, as the organic phos is a mystery and the test range and margin of error could put the tank within the margins for some of the coral that are failing to thrive. The Hanna ULR would give a finer measure.
It's funny how it's only softies that manage, you usually hear that for higher nutrient tanks. I lean toward going by that sort of thing more than test results. Like the presence of the algae, but also coralline is funny too.
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Nano sapiens
New member
A skimmer is only an aid, not a necessity per se. There are plenty of really nice reef tanks out there that use them...and plenty that don't.
I wouldn't use either GAC or GFO at this point since you are trying to drive up nutrients a bit to confirm if a lack of available nutrients is the issue. Just test regularly to make sure you don't over nutrify the tank which can lead to nasty algal/cyano blooms.
Ideally, you want to go back to basics' without adding additional variables/levels of complexity to be able to narrow down the problem(s).
CStrickland
New member
You can keep some corals, so water is not the issue, lighting could be too intense for new arrivals unless you know they were kept under 400w MH or more intense than yours.
I know you said that you have varied intensities of your Vegas, but it can take several weeks to fully acclimate some corals. You may be ramping up the % too soon. I'd try a new LPS frag, and leave %s very low for a longer time--ramping up much more slowly than previously--like over 3-4 months. Light starved corals will expand much more, w/ lots of polyp extension to compensate for the lack of photosynthesis--I would shoot for this.
Good luck, you will figure it out soon!
I know you said that you have varied intensities of your Vegas, but it can take several weeks to fully acclimate some corals. You may be ramping up the % too soon. I'd try a new LPS frag, and leave %s very low for a longer time--ramping up much more slowly than previously--like over 3-4 months. Light starved corals will expand much more, w/ lots of polyp extension to compensate for the lack of photosynthesis--I would shoot for this.
Good luck, you will figure it out soon!
Broadfield
New member
Not sure!?! I don't have a copper test kit, but it's not like it would be hard to run up to the LFS and get one. I have never used any sort of chemicals/medicine in the tank, ever. And I have never let the water from new fish/coral arrivals enter the tank. So if those are the only two common ways for copper to enter the system, then I'm going to assume elevated levels of copper are not the issue.
Yes, I feed Reef-Roids and also spot feed mysis shrimp roughly twice a week
I wasn't aware that Hannah made an ULR Phosphate checker???
Yeah, I'm confused too! It's funny how I can grow coralline without issue and others are begging to be able to grow coralline. I just want to grow corals lol.
I have a friend that has a very successful 29 Biocube and he does not run any sort of skimmer, reactors, has cheapo DIY LED's, doesn't do water changes terribly often. He has given up on trying to figure out my issue. I swear I'm trying too hard lol.
I do agree with you, but I have some additional questions regarding the lighting. Now that we are getting into more specifics, I'll describe the coral behavior in more detail. I didn't want my opening post to be any longer than it already was.
So my Acans seem to be puffed up the most during the day. Then they start to decrease in size as my lights ramp down.... being the smallest in size over night. Even when my lights are 90% of their peak daily value and starting to ramp down, the Acan polyps have already started to "deflate"... 4 hour ramps by-the-way. So have the Acans already absorbed their daily light requirements at this point and are done "reaching" for light or do they simply learn the photoperiod of my tank? Is this normal Acan behavior?
CStrickland
New member
The Hanna ULR reads to .001, at ±5 ppb ±5% of reading. I think most of the regular online retailers carry them at like $50. But still, only inorganic phos. For the visual tests, minimal algae means it is limited by something, likely inorganic phos; coralline doesn't like phos, so it's presence on the rocks indicates that they are not super laden with organic phos and leaching.
If it's a nutrient issue your SPS want inorganic low, and organic phos higher. The LPS and softies want more inorganic. But I gather from your posts that you are beyond finding the magic balance to grow all of these mixed together in a tightly controlled reef-crest / lagoon. Rather you are throwing everything at the wall and hoping something will grow. Idk why nobody's happy
Wrt the copper test, I wouldn't bother with the LFS. API tests only read down to .25 ppm, much higher than corals tolerate. Their purpose is to help you get levels high enough for medication to work. So it's another 0 isn't really 0 sitch. I think if you had levels high enough to show on a hobby kit, your shrimps and snails would be acting goofy.
If it's a nutrient issue your SPS want inorganic low, and organic phos higher. The LPS and softies want more inorganic. But I gather from your posts that you are beyond finding the magic balance to grow all of these mixed together in a tightly controlled reef-crest / lagoon. Rather you are throwing everything at the wall and hoping something will grow. Idk why nobody's happy
Wrt the copper test, I wouldn't bother with the LFS. API tests only read down to .25 ppm, much higher than corals tolerate. Their purpose is to help you get levels high enough for medication to work. So it's another 0 isn't really 0 sitch. I think if you had levels high enough to show on a hobby kit, your shrimps and snails would be acting goofy.
Broadfield
New member
The Hanna ULR reads to .001, at ±5 ppb ±5% of reading. I think most of the regular online retailers carry them at like $50. But still, only inorganic phos. For the visual tests, minimal algae means it is limited by something, likely inorganic phos; coralline doesn't like phos, so it's presence on the rocks indicates that they are not super laden with organic phos and leaching.
If it's a nutrient issue your SPS want inorganic low, and organic phos higher. The LPS and softies want more inorganic. But I gather from your posts that you are beyond finding the magic balance to grow all of these mixed together in a tightly controlled reef-crest / lagoon. Rather you are throwing everything at the wall and hoping something will grow. Idk why nobody's happy
Wrt the copper test, I wouldn't bother with the LFS. API tests only read down to .25 ppm, much higher than corals tolerate. Their purpose is to help you get levels high enough for medication to work. So it's another 0 isn't really 0 sitch. I think if you had levels high enough to show on a hobby kit, your shrimps and snails would be acting goofy.
Can you link me to the ULR? Even on Hannah's site, they only list a LR and HR!?! I have the Phosphorus ULR if that's what you are referring to? If so, that test as .029 ppm.
CStrickland
New member
Yeah, I meant the ULR phosphate with the conversion formula. I think your first post confused me and McGeezer into thinking your inorganic phos was much lower?
Broadfield
New member
CStrickland
New member
Haha, is that your inorganic phos level? Like you are using the ULR and running the calculation? If so i think it's high for SPS but not limiting for Lps and softies.
I think it's a bunny hole, the test is easily done and even more easily misinterpreted. I think you've eliminated as a variable insufficient inorganic phos as a cause of all the issues in your tank.
I do not have any idea what the cause is, or whether it is even singular
I think it's a bunny hole, the test is easily done and even more easily misinterpreted. I think you've eliminated as a variable insufficient inorganic phos as a cause of all the issues in your tank.
I do not have any idea what the cause is, or whether it is even singular
Broadfield
New member
Haha, is that your inorganic phos level? Like you are using the ULR and running the calculation? If so i think it's high for SPS but not limiting for Lps and softies.
I think it's a bunny hole, the test is easily done and even more easily misinterpreted. I think you've eliminated as a variable insufficient inorganic phos as a cause of all the issues in your tank.
I do not have any idea what the cause is, or whether it is even singular
I'm not sure what you mean by calculation. That value was taken with a Hannah ULR Phosphorus meter... not "Phosphate". An ULR Phosphate meter does not exist... at least not on their site. Or not that I can find anyway.
CStrickland
New member
Sorry I'm not explaining it better, here is a good thread to understand how your test works http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2471966
Basically the ULR gives a slightly more accurate reading but you must convert it to a useful number if you want to know how much inorganic phosphate you have in your water at any given time.
Broadfield
New member
Ok, thanks for the quick lesson!
So, my ULR phosphorus reading is 29 ppb. So doing the math, (29 x 3.06)/1000= 0.089 ppm inorganic phosphate
