Rebuild and recovery of a dead tank

[jason2459]

Planning out the new 180 and establishing a sump room where I also have a floor drain. Unfortunately I also have our water heater, water softener, and HVAC unit. So its a tight fit. I also put a dehumidifier in that room along with a 2nd dehumidifier in another part of the basement to keep humidity down. It also increases the evaporation rate of the tank. Which I feel is better and evens out my lime water addition via my ATO.

Hooked up to the 55g with one of those siphon hang on overflows. It was a life reef one.

 

[jason2459]

I quickly discovered I didn't like filter socks and removed them.

Can see the rodi and mixing container(brute) under the sump stand.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Remind me, do you have any detectable N or P, or tank algae issues? Only have a minute and no time to scroll back in the thread...

 

[jason2459]

Remind me, do you have any detectable N or P, or tank algae issues? Only have a minute and no time to scroll back in the thread...

Nitrates I don't get a reading so assume something under 5. PO4 usually around .06-.09. I normally don't have any nuisance algae issues and currently don't.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Ok. In those pics it looks like you have a base of GHA on the screen, with some dark slimy stuff growing over it. I've seen this in various phases of initial scrubber break-in, can do this for months or it can not happen at all.

When you pull out the screen, it will usually stay attached and look deep red or black, and it will swipe right off. If you get this all the time, then it's a good idea to take the screen out at 7-9 days and swipe it off so that it doesn't block light the the base of the screen where the GHA is growing, because lack of light can weaken the growth and cause sections to detach.

If you're having any in-tank algae problems, or elevated N or P, then leave the GHA on the screen, maybe give it a light rub and rinse and put it back in for another week. Since you're not having any algae issue, but you still have some phosphate, I would do this. The idea is that you don't want to scrape off the GHA as long as it's not too thick and will self-block the light to the base.

You can also do a partial cleaning where you take the edge of the scraper or credit card and scrape off in a tic-tac-toe pattern on one side (about 1" apart) and then an "X" pattern on the other side. This lets light from one side to the base on the other side without a complete cleaning = extend your potential growth cycle. I recommend doing this when you get your first really nice cycle of growth. Then about 7 days later, scrape it and you should have a lot of the holes filled in with growth that will bounce back fast.

 

[jason2459]

Day 9

Yep seeing more brown something. I'll see if I can pull it out and wipe tonight. Should I start increasing the flow?

 

[jason2459]

Bought the 180 I've got now used with stand and canopy. I think I paid something like $200-300. I reenforced the stand with some 2x4's. Sanded it down and painted the stand and canopy black outside and insides white. Wasn't nice enough wood to stain.

Leak test. Failed

Stripped all the old silicon out and pulled it all apart. Resealed all pains. It was a major PAIN!! Never again.

 

[jason2459]

Pulled out the screen to do a quick wipe to get rid of the brown slime stuff. When I pulled it out I was actually quite surprised of the weight.


Front side

Back side

Even the false bottom had some brown stuff growing on it along with some hair algae which surprised me. I cleaned it completely off.

After wiping and rinsing both sides:

Definitely thicker and thinner in spots but I'm very happy with the progress so far. Thanks for all the help Floyd R Turbo!

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

That's a lot more than I thought you would have! Probably could have done the edge-scraping ("X" & "#" pattern). I would do that on day 5 now just to be safe as the growth that is still on the screen does look pretty dense and could self-block by day 8 or earlier.

 

[jason2459]

That's a lot more than I thought you would have! Probably could have done the edge-scraping ("X" & "#" pattern). I would do that on day 5 now just to be safe as the growth that is still on the screen does look pretty dense and could self-block by day 8 or earlier.

Ok will do, I figured to leave it alone after the quick wiping and I saw some thin spot still and able to see the screen in spots.

At what point would you say I should remove the scotch tape from the blues and turn up the flow?

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

I would probably leave it as you have it now until the rest of the screen fills in, then remove the tape. Since the screen can continue to "evolve" for a while, once you hit the stride, it's best to not mess with it unless you need to. So I'd leave flow and hours where they are for at least a few full cleaning cycles (full meaning complete scrape)

In your case, I wouldn't mess with it as long as your phosphates start to come down. I would expect that they would drop to below 0.04 but that's not a very long way down from where you are now and within the error range at least for the Hanna Checker.

 

[jason2459]

I should probably do some tests tonight.

 

[jason2459]

So, I discovered the seasonal tables and have switched my lighting to work with those along with eventually my heaters. I just got another EB8 in to put into the basement and a 15' extension cable to connect it to the brain under the Display Tank in the cabinet so I can get the heaters on that. Next purchase will most likely be another breakout box for the basement and a PM2 module to plug it into along with another Temp and Conductivity Probe for salinity monitoring. Then I can move the rest of everything off the reefkeepers and retire them.

For the heaters I'll still use the Ranco controller as a backup set with a high temp mark in case the controller "sticks" on for some reason and the heaters temp set even higher. The temp will go with the seasonal tables which range from 76 to 80 degrees through out the year. The lighting I shifted to go with my viewing time in the evening but will shift it's on time based on the season table as well.

The Programming:

The blue LEDs: (*I doubt the temp from the LEDs would impact anything at all but it was in there by default and adjusted the temps higher)
Fallback ON
Set OFF
If Sun 180/240 Then ON (Shifts the sunrise/sunset for my viewing habits but still based on the seasonal tables)
If DTTemp > 85.0 Then OFF


The whites :
Fallback ON
Set OFF
If Sun 240/180 Then ON (set to go on 1 hour after blues and off 1 hour before the blues)
If DTTemp > 84.0 Then OFF


The heaters: (which I have two heaters plugged into a Ranco and the Ranco will be plugged into an outlet and set to turn off at 82F and heaters set to turn off at 84F)
Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If DTTemp < RT+0.0 Then ON (based on the seasonal table with no adjustments.)

 

[jason2459]

Oh, and my reeftronics.net account has been reactivated. It was offline line for a while when my Net module died on my reefkeeper. Looks like that site also has the ability to show off the programming too which is cool.


https://www.reeftronics.net/ja/jason2459

I need to calibrate my pH probe on the Apex... Reefkeeper says my pH is 7.98 as of this morning when I did my spot checking. The apex right now is reading 7.66 which would not be good.

3 times a day there will be a dip in pH, temp, and the Amps and should line up with the feedings of 12pm, 4pm, and 8pm. This is because I have the pH and temp probe in the back external overflow drain area. I don't turn anything off when I feed the meaty foods as they don't float around like the pellets do and get sucked down the overflow.

 

[jason2459]

Day 1.

White film from doing a crappy wipe down last night can't see very well.

 

[jason2459]

I got the 2nd EB8 hooked up in the basement and aquabus connected to the EB8 in the DT stand. The Ranco and heaters are now connected to the basement EB8. Now to see if I can get in a PO4 check in later.

 

[jason2459]

Did a round of tests tonight

Nitrates: API undetectable (target under 10)
Phosphates: Hanna Egg 0.08 (target under 1.0)
Calcium: API 420 (target 400-460)
Mg: Salifert 1320 (target 1260-1380)
Alk: API 11dkh (target 9-12)
pH: ReefKeeper Probe 8.01 (target 7.9-8.3)
Salinity: Veegee Refractometer 35ppt (35ppt)


That's pretty much normal from what I have usually tested in the past and in my target ranges (included above). API is cheap and good enough for me to land in the target range so I like API for Calcium, Nitrate, and Alk. Salifert makes their Mg specifically for seawater so I stick with that one. I trust my veegee/vital refractometer over anything else. pH anything but API.

 

[jason2459]

So, now that I'm building out a fully functional controller again I need to plan my circuits and outlets.

I have 3 separate circuits which I can draw from (all gfci and tested). I want to make sure my internal DT pump(gyre) and return pump are on different circuits.

I also like to have my heaters and return on their own circuit. Mainly because if a heater blows and happens to trip the gfci it will stop the return pump. Which to me is a good thing so it hopefully reduces the chance of nuking the main tank with what ever it spews into the sump.

I also like to have my lights on different circuits so that way if one goes out the other set of lights is still providing some light to anything that wants light.


So, I have 2 EB8's now (EB3 & EB5) and would need a 3rd one for the 3rd circuit.

circuit #1 (EB5) Return/heaters/skimmer/Ozone/Vinegar doser (this one pops I want all these off)
circuit #2 (EB3) Gyre/blue lights/feeder/Apex 12v/ Apex Aquabus (need this one to last though power outage)
circuit #3 (NewEB) ATO/ATS(pump+lights)/AWC/White lights (all just good to haves)

I think that's all I have running on this 180.

I'll have the Apex's 12v power supply plugged into the same outlet as the EB3 and the EB3 will be plugged into a UPS which will keep the brain powered and the gyre. All other outlets on the EB3 will power down. The 12v supply loosing power will shoot off an email which my Internet Router is also on an UPS so if the entire house looses power or the circuit #1,#2, or #3 pops I'll get an email and text right away. Then get a generator going on circuit #2 asap or find out what tripped that circuit.

So, to get that all setup I'll need one more energy bar, breakout box, pm2, and programming all the inputs and modules.

 

[jason2459]

I went ahead and moved over the vinegar dosing to the apex. Since it was on a multi timer on the reefkeeper with a pH shutdown point. Though the pH probe on the apex needs calibrated it can still track the trend and I set the pH adjusted for the uncalibrated apex pH probe.

I have to say setting up the doser/multitimer on the Reefkeeper was much easier. There's not a multitimer or doser type of easy setup template in the apex and have to use the Advanced option and figure out the oscillation and delays etc.

In the reef keeper I setup a timer and put it on a multi-timer function outlet. It ran starting at 12 pm, 4 minutes at a time, wait 20 minutes, and repeat that 21 times a day. Then had an alert based on pH less then 7.9 to turn it off. Pretty easy. That put it something just over 90 ml per day of Vinegar dosed.


So, just figuring out the oscillation it's set to run from 11am to 9pm. Wait 51 minutes and 81 seconds and then run for 8 minutes and 19 seconds. Then repeat in the time allowed. This should then run 10 times a day pumping out just over 9ml at a time giving around 90ml a day. I have it waiting to run instead of running right away as I have the feeder going on the hour 3x per day at 12,4,8 which will shut down the return pump for 45 minutes. I'd rather have that return pump running while the vinegar is pumping. But I do want it running even if I manually hit the feed button shutting down the return pump. So, I figured timing it right is better then figuring out the logic. Then I'll have to adjusting the pH comparison once I have the probe calibrated right.

So, I hope I have this right. Here's the programming:

Vinegar BRS 1.1ml/m doser
Fallback OFF
Set OFF
OSC 051:81/008:19/000:00 Then ON
If Time 21:00 to 11:00 Then OFF
If DT_pH < 7.50 Then OFF

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Nitrates: API undetectable (target under 10)
Phosphates: Hanna Egg 0.08 (target under 1.0)
Calcium: API 420 (target 400-460)
Mg: Salifert 1320 (target 1260-1380)
Alk: API 11dkh (target 9-12)
pH: ReefKeeper Probe 8.01 (target 7.9-8.3)
Salinity: Veegee Refractometer 35ppt (35ppt)

I use API for any tank that is having N>10, under 10 it's not very reliable but IMO <10 is not an issue. I use Salifert N for tank that have rock bottom N and look through the side of the vial (10x multiplier technique) and usually, it looks pale yellow to clear, usually no hint of pink at all

I don't care for API's calcium kit myself. Used it a few times then when back to Salifert. Much more accurate IMO but at long as you're in a 50 pt range you're golden anyways.

Alk, API is not very good here either IMO, Salifert is better, but I really like the Hanna Checker for this. Very accurate, easy, fast.

I use a Milwaukee salinity meter and will never go back. I ran into a calibration issue with a refractometer and learned a lot. Generally you're good as long as you calibrate with fluid not RODI, but not always. Also the pro refractometer from Marine Depot is the best one, it only has a 20-40ppt range instead of a brine refractometer which has 0-100 and is not made for seawater (most aren't)

pH is one of those I never measure anymore, but I have a Hanna TDS/EC/pH meter that I picked up cheap and that is another one of those best purchases ever.

But then again you didn't ask for my opinion lol

I have 3 separate circuits which I can draw from (all gfci and tested). I want to make sure my internal DT pump(gyre) and return pump are on different circuits.

I also like to have my heaters and return on their own circuit. Mainly because if a heater blows and happens to trip the gfci it will stop the return pump. Which to me is a good thing so it hopefully reduces the chance of nuking the main tank with what ever it spews into the sump.

I also like to have my lights on different circuits so that way if one goes out the other set of lights is still providing some light to anything that wants light.

Nice to have things on separate breakers. You can also wire GFCIs all together on the same circuit as long as they are not daisy-chained, and they will trip out independently. i.e. wire them in parallel not series. If you have your first receptacle GFCI and then wire from the other side to the downstream receptacles, the GFCI protects the whole string. You you don't always want that, so if you wire up the next receptacle from the same side (feed side) then it's not covered by the GFCI.

The age old battle with circuit protection is one that is tricky. You don't want a return pump to trip out your system but you also want to avoid getting dead. The latter is generally more important. But if you GFCI your pump, make sure it's a good quality 20A one (on a 20A circuit) that is rated for pump duty. They make these for sump pumps, so that the starting inrush/etc doesn't cause a nuisance trip. The GFCI trips because something is wrong. If there is nothing wrong and it trips, you're using the wrong GFCI for the job. That's why the NEC recently made it a requirement for sump pumps to be GFCI protected, no matter what.

Light on a separate circuit is always good also, I've had a T5HO ballast pop the GFCI, 13 hours later...fun times