Red Planaria: what are the toxic effects if unattended?

[mushroom hater]

a colony of red Planaria (brown flatworms) has taken a grip on my reef tank. I've searched and haven't found out what exactly are the toxic effects during die off if I'm not home to remedy with carbon and a massive water change? I read that flatworm toxic juices during massive die off are bad, but bad to what? Do the fish suddenly get stressed and die and the corals are doomed? I've vacuumed them out as best as I can and will resort to Flatworm Exit but just curious what about an unexpected die off of "flatworm juices" to my reef tank if I'm not home when the die off occures?

 

[hahnmeister]

Ive used FWE a few times on these buggers, and they always come back... go figure. Think I need to invest in some velvet nudis or a pack of wrasses.

Anyways, there has been minimal effect on my corals despite the sometimes massive amounts of Red Planaria that I kill at once. I keep the flow strong, and the protein skimmer pulls red gunk pretty well. And Im running mostly SPS, LPS, and zoas.

Id dose FWE and get it over with.

On a side note, I seem to be finding the red planaria attracted to a specific type of red cyano type of algae... a deep purple kind. Almost all the Red Planaria in the tank are congregated around this algae.

Perhaps they feed on this algae, and the secret to eliminating them lies within this.

 

[Faviaphile]

Good question Mushroom Hater. I would like to know too.
Has anyone ever had a huge die off, or heard about a problem second hand? With all the reefers out there, if they really are as problamatic as we hear then there's gotta be somebody....

 

[hahnmeister]

A naturally occuring die-off? No, never heard of it. They can be swarming like bees on honey and they still reproduce.

 

[rick s]

I can't answer your question, but I can give you my experience with Flatworm Exit. I had Red Planaria flatworms (see pics in my gallery). It took 3 or 4 treatments to get rid of them. That was over a year ago and I haven't seen any since. I can tell you more about "how to" if you like.

 

[lvreefer]

Planaria or acoel worms? Most "red planaria" are neither red nor planaria. They are acoel worms that can cause ammonia spikes during large die offs. If your system can handle the load then there won't be an issue.

 

[lvreefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9813184#post9813184 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
On a side note, I seem to be finding the red planaria attracted to a specific type of red cyano type of algae... a deep purple kind. Almost all the Red Planaria in the tank are congregated around this algae.

Perhaps they feed on this algae, and the secret to eliminating them lies within this.

I agree with you on this. Acoel worms will feed on detris, algae, and pods. So maybe there is a concentration or combo of these in that area.

 

[hahnmeister]

Yeah, the red flatworms that I am talking about are these:
http://www.seaslugforum.net/display.cfm?id=5836

Cant seem to ever be rid of them 100%.

 

[mushroom hater]

hmmmm, all good feedback guys. I was hoping to know what was the effect from flatworm juice/guts at die off on fish and corals? If someone has found that the "juice" is indeed causing an ammonia spike/poison in the water, then the actual question should have been "what the heck happens if I don't have enough water ready on hand for MORE than a 25% water change"? ... which is around 200 gallons for me. I'd like to be prepared, but have people seen their fish start dying if they don't do over a 25% water change? And FWIW, I've got 12,000 gph and these brown flatworms are some tough hombres as some guys have found. 350 - 400 gallons of warm water on hand may be un-necessary if the subsequent trace"juice" isn't going to cause popeye or some resulting fish stress/die off.

 

[hahnmeister]

I never had a problem with the Flatworm Exit, and I didnt adhere to the whole 25% water change idea either. My skimmer collected almost all of the 'juice'.

Of course, every system is different... yours might not be so lucky to handle the byproducts. I use refugiums, phosban, carbon, a good skimmer... as well as the 'vodka' method to reduce phosphates and nitrates.

Hmmm.... that gives me an idea...

Perhaps you might want to add some biological filtration (wet dry/fluidized bed/ bio-balls). This will provide a medium for any ammonia and nitrite to be quickly converted to nitrates. Then, get the vodka method going (about 2 shot-glasses of everclear every day will do it for your system)... this will enable the bacteria that feed on the sugars in ethanol to build up. These bacteria feed on phosphates and nitrates in the process...

Then, use flatworm exit... being sure to remove carbon during treatment and make sure your skimmer is ready to go (freshly cleaned). Also, I usually do about 2x the dosage compared to normal... these red buggers seem extra hardy.

Then, after a day, put the carbon back in use, check the skimmer (you should have collected nothing but red crap all night), and continue the vodka method.

The extra bio-filtration will of course boost phosphates and nitrates, but it will process ammonia and nitrites. Normally, this would be a bad thing, but the vodka method makes the bacteria bloom to digest the nitrates and phosphates. Then, these bacteria are collected in the protein skimmer, nutrients and all.

This may be the little 'boost' you need to handle the mass die-off.

Regards,
Jon