red slime/cyano

fullmonti

now is the time
From what I understand this is a bacteria even though it acts like a algae. Doe's that mean
it grows from the same conditions as algae (needs phosphates to grow)?

If it is a bacteria, & if you are dosing a carbon source will that encourage the cyano?

Doe's the cyano treatment products also kill desirable bacteria?

Any additional info on this subject would also be appreciated

Also should running GFO & keeping the tank cleaned up as much as possible get
rid of the cyano. If so how long should it take?
 
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fullmonti

now is the time
What I'm trying to understand is, I have been battling algae for some time. Been treating with algaefix for about a month, after each dose I scrub dead algae off with toothbrush, but where i can't scrub it off cyano started growing on dead algae. I finally came to understand
that nitrates & phosphate can test 0 & still have algae because the algae is taking up all the
nitrates & phosphates from the water. So I started running GFO 3-4 weeks ago. BUT if the algae is sucking up all the nitrates & phosphates what is the cyano eating?
 

sedor

New member
When I first started vodka dosing I noticed a small cyano outbreak, but it went away shortly and hasn't returned. So, yes I do believe carbon dosing can encourage cyano, but long term it's nothing to be concerned about.
 

fullmonti

now is the time
I should also mention cyano has started growing on sand in frag tank where there has never been algae. What's up with that?
 

Joe Pusdesris

New member
Probably absorbing phosphate right as it comes out of the rock/sand/what have you, before it even reaches the water column. It can get carbon and nitrogen right out of the atmosphere. If you are not afraid of chemicals, which I assume since you use algaefix, there are products like "Red Slime Remover."

If you want to avoid chemicals, then Cyanobacteria is quite the challenge that no one seems to understand how to win. People will claim phosphate remover and flow, but I doubt it. Skimmers seem to help to some extent, but I don't know.
 

fullmonti

now is the time
I don't really like to use chemicals, but the algae had been driving me crazy for along time
& I finally gave in. From what I understand about reef tanks a big part of what makes them
work is bacteria consuming/converting waste. So if you use the red slime remover how long does it take to rebuild the desirable bacteria that it wipes out? or is that not really a prob?
 

Joe Pusdesris

New member
I doubt you will have any problem, I am pretty sure that the antibiotics target cyanobacteria. Honestly, if you gave up algae, you will surely give up on cyano.
 

fullmonti

now is the time
Sorry to be asking so many questions, just trying to get a grip on how all this works & relates to each other.
If cyano can get its nourishment from rocks/sand & even the atmosphere, why aren't all of our tanks covered in the stuff? What is going on that keeps it from growing normally?
 
This three part article goes into great detail for a hobbyist regarding cyanobacteria:

Red Slime Algae and Cyanobacteria in General by Albert J. Thiel
http://www.netpets.com/fish/reference/reefref/cyanobacteria.html

The bottom line for controlling cyanobacteria seems to be reducing the dissolved organic material and debris in your tank. How does one do this?

1) Reduced feeding
2) Water changes
3) Running carbon
4) Swishing your hand in your tank to cause the debris to get into the the water column and then use a fine filter bag to collect it out of your water. This can be done several time per day.
4) Siphoning Debris out of your tank
5) Remove all algae and cyano regularly.
6) A good quality skimmer
7) Keep your sand and rock as clean as possible.

Phosphate should read zero using hobby grade kits, but phosphate is not the limiting factor when fighting cyano and very low levels will not gain control by itself.
 

Paul B

Premium Member
Although Red Slime Remover works very well just about overnight I would use and have used many times, Chemi Clean. I used to use it every few months just for the hell of it.
No, it will not kill all of your bacteria or your live rock or anything else except cyanobacteria.
You can try reducing nitrates, phosphates, increasing water flow, add carbon etc. But guess what? It will not reduce the cyano. Most of the time the stuff leaves on it's own but you could give it a push with Chemi Clean.
If you don't like chemicals you should also not use ASW or all of those phosphate reducing products which are all chemicals.
It seems that in your tank you do have too much DOC or in short too much food or too many animals. After you eliminate this stuff you need to feed much less.
Fish need very little food and they don't need it every day.
 

Joe Pusdesris

New member
Although Red Slime Remover works very well just about overnight I would use and have used many times, Chemi Clean. I used to use it every few months just for the hell of it.
No, it will not kill all of your bacteria or your live rock or anything else except cyanobacteria.
You can try reducing nitrates, phosphates, increasing water flow, add carbon etc. But guess what? It will not reduce the cyano. Most of the time the stuff leaves on it's own but you could give it a push with Chemi Clean.
If you don't like chemicals you should also not use ASW or all of those phosphate reducing products which are all chemicals.
It seems that in your tank you do have too much DOC or in short too much food or too many animals. After you eliminate this stuff you need to feed much less.
Fish need very little food and they don't need it every day.



What is the advantage of chemiclean to the other products? Just that you have personally used it, or?
 

fullmonti

now is the time
As always good info, thanks Cliff.

This is a classic case of conflicting info/opinions. Some say the cyano treatments will kill beneficial bacteria, some say no. Many people say they feed their fish once a day or less. I had read in more than one place that active fish like anthias ect. should be fed 2-3 times daily. I think my root problem is I have been feeding my fish to much. I have some anthias, chromis ect. so I have been feeding 2-3 times daily (small feedings, they eat every thing in a minute or less). The reason I think feeding to much must be the problem is I am doing every thing else on Cliffs list & have been for a long time now.

I have stopped flake food, because I think it has more phosphate than frozen foods (Rod's food, mysis ect)? I still give the tangs some of the dried seaweed, how is it on phosphate?

I still like the idea of two small feeds rather than one big one. What do you guys think?

This three part article goes into great detail for a hobbyist regarding cyanobacteria:

Red Slime Algae and Cyanobacteria in General by Albert J. Thiel
http://www.netpets.com/fish/reference/reefref/cyanobacteria.html

The bottom line for controlling cyanobacteria seems to be reducing the dissolved organic material and debris in your tank. How does one do this?

1) Reduced feeding
2) Water changes
3) Running carbon
4) Swishing your hand in your tank to cause the debris to get into the the water column and then use a fine filter bag to collect it out of your water. This can be done several time per day.
4) Siphoning Debris out of your tank
5) Remove all algae and cyano regularly.
6) A good quality skimmer
7) Keep your sand and rock as clean as possible.

Phosphate should read zero using hobby grade kits, but phosphate is not the limiting factor when fighting cyano and very low levels will not gain control by itself.
 

Paul B

Premium Member
What is the advantage of chemiclean to the other products? Just that you have personally used it, or?

I personally have used Red Slime Remover and Chemi Clean many times since they invented the stuff. Red Slime Remover works a little faster so I assume it has a harsher chemical, (or antibiotic) I never had a problem with it though.
I also never had a problem with Chemi Clean but it is expensive.
After using both in my reef for decades, I have never seen a problem. I feel that all the horror stories are rumors and if your tank crashed, it probably would have crashed anyway.
If I can use the stuff for over 30 years and my tank never crashed, then I consider it safe. Maybe in a tank with a DSB or some other system may not fare as well, I can't say. Some tanks are on the verge of crashing anyway so I guess adding almost anything would kill it.
Just my educated opinion from my experiences. I even have some of the stuff laying around.
 

Joe Pusdesris

New member
I personally have used Red Slime Remover and Chemi Clean many times since they invented the stuff. Red Slime Remover works a little faster so I assume it has a harsher chemical, (or antibiotic) I never had a problem with it though.
I also never had a problem with Chemi Clean but it is expensive.
After using both in my reef for decades, I have never seen a problem. I feel that all the horror stories are rumors and if your tank crashed, it probably would have crashed anyway.
If I can use the stuff for over 30 years and my tank never crashed, then I consider it safe. Maybe in a tank with a DSB or some other system may not fare as well, I can't say. Some tanks are on the verge of crashing anyway so I guess adding almost anything would kill it.
Just my educated opinion from my experiences. I even have some of the stuff laying around.


Good to know. I haven't used red slime remover for eh, 9 years or so, but my 34 gallon has a little red patch. The patch hasn't really spread in about a year, but if it does, I suppose I might go with chemiclean then.
 
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