RedSea Foundation Elements B (Alk)

[Poopapotamus]

Hello,
I bought this product recently as I am about to start dosing Alk and Cal into my tank now that water changes are not keeping up. I purchased the 1KG package instead of the premixed. It doesn't really come with any useful instruction, the package visually says 20g/100L= 6.6dKh inside an up arrow, so I assume this means if I add 20g of this to 100L it will increase the dKh by 6.6... Since I will be dosing with a Neptune Dos, I want to make up a stock solution that I can dose a couple of ml a day... to be determined. I went to the RedSea website and they have a section with the... How to make a stock solution, and it says 1KG for 10L, and they provide a little spoon in the package that is 20g on one side and 2g on the other. Since I only want to make 2L at a time (1/5th) that would be 200g/2L based on their 1kg/10L recommendation. So I made this up this morning 2L of DI water and 10 20g scoops of the foundation B powder.

So this is where my question comes in...I was unable to make the powder dissolve in the water, the moment I stop stirring, a bunch of it falls out of solution and collects on bottom. I gave it about 45min before I had to go to work, but it seems that this amount is above the solubility of the product? Does anyone have experience with this product? Is it particularly hard to dissolve? Any tricks? unfortunately it is in a plastic beaker, so heating will be difficult.
Thanks In Advance
Ron

 

[Playapixie]

Yes, the directions are awful, aren't they? I found this thread helpful: https://www.*********.com/threads/red-sea-reef-foundation-powder-mixing-s.309085/
But used several other threads and the Red Sea site to figure it out, too.

To sum it up:
-I mix the entire KG in 10L (and save the extra in a water jug.) It should work just fine to mix 200gm in 2L; you'll get the same concentration. The final concentration is 1/3 the strength of their premixed ALK solution. When you look at their "œreef recipes" examples, note that they are talking about the pre-mixed solution, not the strength you make with the powder.
-The final mixture (based on the above mix) will raise your alk like this: 1ml solution per 100L (~25 gallons) tank water will raise your alk by 0.034 DKH. So if you have a 25 gallon tank, adding 3ml will raise your DKH by 0.1 DKH.
-If you had bought their liquid premix, 1ml would raise it by 0.1 DKH.
-In my 34 gallon mixed reef, I'm currently dosing 3mls Red Sea Calcium (which, weirdly does mix up to the same concentration as their liquid Ca) and 27mls alk daily.

-I read somewhere in the Red Sea materials that you should ideally heat the water before mixing. I use a spare aquarium heater to heat it first.

-Red Sea also says that it is normal to have some precipitation when your'e done mixing, and to just discard it. Ultimately it doesn't matter that much if your final concentration is slightly off due to precipitation; you need to adjust your dosing based on how your tank tests, not set numbers of ml's. It takes a little trial and error and testing over a couple of weeks probably to get your dose figured out. And then it'll of course also change over time as things grow. Obviously be extra careful with testing when you switch batches, especially if you ever switch to their pre-mixed liquid, which is 3X stronger!

Hope that helps.


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[Poopapotamus]

Thanks playapixie,
That does help a bit, but what I found is that a large amount would not dissolve, like over half! since I am using the Neptune DOS to pump it in to my aquarium, I can not have all that powder in there as it draws from the bottom of the container. I decided that it doesn't really matter what the concentration is as long as I test often to get the correct amount. On this line of thinking I just added more water until I was finally able to dissolve the majority of the powder, then I just stored the extra. unfortunately, this means I will have to keep a close eye on things every time I make up a new batch.
I really appreciate your reply...It took me a long time to find it though, it just disappeared and there is no easy way to find your own posts on this site. I wish they would add a tab or something with "my posts"
Cheers
Ron

 

[bertoni]

Generally, manufacturers don't list exactly what's in their products, so we have to do some guessing here.

The solubility limit for the product likely is around 2¼ cups per gallon for the alkalinity solution. It might be half that, if you have a lower-pH version. Heating might help make the mixing faster, but probably won't change the total soluble amount much. If you have a low-pH version, heating will increase its pH.

The calcium part should be much more soluble, but, as a first step, I'd mix 2¼ cups of it, as well, and enough water to make a gallon. The two solutions should be balanced supplements. By "balanced" I mean that they should be dosed in equal volumes in most situations.

 

[ajoe]

Ron. I was also frustrated with the mixes available on the market and eventually realized my frustration and time with inconsistency was worth a stellar liquid option. There are many to choose from but I found Two Little Fishies C Balance to be my go to option. Equilibrium with Alk and Ca are too important to a thriving reef tank to mess with on again off again results. Simply worth the added cost for my tank. Totally consistent product with added stability. Works for me.

 

[Poopapotamus]

Thanks for your replies guys. Bertoni, with this particular product I need to add way less of the Calcium supplement then the Alk, If I did them equal I would either have way too much Ca going in or to little Alk.
This was following their instructions right from their website, so this is why I was so confused why I was having such difficulty when I was following exactly there instructions. I am actually a molecular virologists, so I have been making buffers for over 20 years now, so I was literally like "What the Hell... a one ingredient buffer and I can't pull it off"!:headwally:

Ajoe... Point taken bud! Once I work my way through this stuff I will purchase the premixed. The folly of a first time purchase.

Thanks Again
Ron

 

[bertoni]

Well, I am not sure what they have in their products, so I can't make any promises, but usually, something like 2¼ cups per gallon should be okay. Maybe the issue is the consumption ratio? It's usually 2.8 dKH per 20 ppm calcium, so it often takes a long time for calcium dosing to make a measurable difference, and water changes sometimes are enough to keep that level up.