*Reef Breeders Photon v2 and T5 installation, testing, and review*

[jason2459]

Opps correction. I shouldn't do excel at 1am

And FYI the T5s added about 170watts so you can Subtract 170 watts from the 12:30 to 8:30 numbers to get just the LEDs watts used.

So, this still shows T5s aren't very efficient and pulled far away from PAR produced once they turned on.

 

[Ron Reefman]

Great stuff here Jason. You almost make me wish I had a canopy again. I'd love to add a t5 front and back of the 50" Photon V2, but I just can't find a way to make it look good above the tank.

BTW, I completely understand the submarine now. And this is from a guy who has a ceramic Santa Clause ornament scuba diving in his tank at Christmas!

 

[jason2459]

Great stuff here Jason. You almost make me wish I had a canopy again. I'd love to add a t5 front and back of the 50" Photon V2, but I just can't find a way to make it look good above the tank.

BTW, I completely understand the submarine now. And this is from a guy who has a ceramic Santa Clause ornament scuba diving in his tank at Christmas!

Thanks. Taking measurements today and will one more day. Get a 3 day avg. And probably do it again in 3 months to see how the T5s are holding up. And getting PUR now that I've figured out my access to the Seneye webserver.

Can you make a floating canopy? I saw a DIY one somewhere maybe on youtube that looked decent.

 

[Ron Reefman]

Absolutely I could. But I REALLY like the incredibly clean look of the V2 on legs. It's so minimal. And it's not like I feel thr need for t5's is that important. After all, even my old Photons over my old 180g tank were growing sps faster than I really wanted. I was fraging corals and having to post up sales on our local club website to sell them more often than I really cared to. But on the other hand, reducing some of the deeper shadows in the tank would be nice... but certainly not critical.

 

[jason2459]

I hear you. They are a very nice looking fixture and would love to show them off too.

 

[jason2459]

2% Royal Blues + 1% Deep Red!!!!!! it's awesome!! It's like I have those glo fish. My lyretail anthias and one spot foxface are glowing like crazy and so are a few other things like my two common star fish. My anemones too but they were doing that with just the Royal Blues.


Oh wow the coral beauuty is cool with this like that. Yellows and oranges just glow.

 

[jason2459]

One more day of collecting par/pur/watts. I think a 3 day average should be good enough. I'll see if I can do this every 3 months or so. I added the PUR to the chart.

 

[jason2459]

After watching the tank all weekend I'm pretty happy with the Bulbs and LED settings. I don't know if I'm ramping up and down like I should so will keep watching the inhabitants.

To me peak and around the peak times it is more blue then 14k , not near 20k, but it is a very crisp looking color I was looking for. Everything is vibrant which the Actinic may be helping that and the Blue+ seems to be helping the brightness and crispness. If that makes sense. The white(yellowish white) from the LEDs is definitely helping the tank from looking to 20k or like Windex. So, even though I was hoping for a whiter white it might just be a good thing its not in this case.

As for the light meter testing I added LUX in too as I have the numbers may as well plug them in. First time doing this I will most probably do this better and more efficiently next time and more accurately.

Few things I learned this first go around.

Adding LUX in was interesting and corresponded directly with watts used. T5s being the biggest impact.

White and interestingly the cool blue channels ramping up decreased PUR.

T5s are obviously not nearly as efficient as LEDs in delivering PAR per watts. Blue+ bulbs deliver more PAR then Coral+ and True Actinic. They did not seem to impact the PUR up or down at 77% of the PAR value. I will need to see where their PUR values are when on by themselves as I only seem to have PAR values.

Pretty cool and hope to learn more. For right now though I'm not changing any settings.

 

[Ron Reefman]

Jason, I think the work you have done here is worthwhile and I'm following along. But I do have one issue with the readings.

I'm curious about the PUR readings. I'm still far from convinced that the PUR readings from this meter are all that useful... or maybe accurate would be a better word choice. I'm not saying PUR isn't more important than PAR, it obviously is. But I'm, at the very least, skeptical of the value of the PUR readings you are getting.

First do you know which spectrum they are reading and then calling PUR versus what spectrum they are reading and calling PAR (I assume 400nm to 700nm)? Does the manufacturer give you specific spectrum they measure? Or ranges? Or even name the basic colors they read?

And where did the info on exactly what the PUR spectrum should became from? It seems to me that the PUR for a shallow coral could/should/would be quite different than that of a deeper water coral given the different light they get due to the water's filtering effect.

If it's just an average and the sensor is reading mostly blues and some red, it's just a percentage of the PAR. And your charts seem to bare that out pretty dramatically. The PAR and PUR graphs have a very solid correlation with PUR being roughly 2/3rds to 3/4ths of PAR.

I think it would be very interesting to compare the PAR vs PUR of each led channel and each t5 bulb. In particular we have green leds in the Photon V2. It's not typically considered a PUR is it? How does the PAR vs PUR look if the green leds are the only light to be measured?

 

[jason2459]

I also brought up those questions on how accurate, valuable, and specific are the PUR values as a whole or for different corals. There is one research the shows red light hinders the growth for at least one specific coral but but about others and other photosynthetic organisms like clams and anemones. You'll want to check out my PAR shootout thread
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2626700

I do feel better about the PUR ratings after going through the testing at least as far as being potentially useful in seeing when the phosphors in the T5s and LEDs start burning out before the bulb does. Of course T5s much faster.

The Seneye has spectrum sensors along with PAR and LUX. From that it calculates the PUR based on general photosynthesis research on chlorophyll A and B which peaks PUR at around 420, 450, 640, and 660. So, the PUR value is the percentage of the PAR value that lays in the spectrum defined by chlorophyll a/b and possibly carotenoids as the spectrum chart in the Seneye follows this.

 

[jason2459]

I actually got individual light PAR and PUR readings and they lined up well with that chart based on the LED ratings.

From that PAR shootout thread:

All of the rest are at 30% individual Channels.

Channel 1 Deep Red 4 Osram 3watt 660nm (edit: Just noticed this was the highest pur rating. Kudos to reef breeders for selecting deep red for the red channel led)
Photon v2 30% red only by Jason, on Flickr

Photon v2 30% red only by Jason, on Flickr



Channel 2 Green 4 Semi LED 3watt 520nm
Photon v2 30% channel 2 green only by Jason, on Flickr

Photon v2 30% channel 2 green only by Jason, on Flickr



Channel 3 Royal Blue 20 Cree XT-E 5watt 450nm
Photon v2 30% channel 3 royal blue only by Jason, on Flickr

Photon v2 30% channel 3 royal blue only by Jason, on Flickr


Channel 4 White 16 Cree XP-E 5watt 5500K
Photon v2 30% channel 4 white only by Jason, on Flickr

Photon v2 30% channel 4 white only by Jason, on Flickr


Channel 5 Cool Blue 12 Cree XP-E 3watt 480nm
Photon v2 30% channel 5 cool blue only by Jason, on Flickr

Photon v2 30% channel 5 cool blue only by Jason, on Flickr

 

[jason2459]

Channel 6 Violet 16 Semi LED 3watt 420nm (Check out that PUR!)
Photon v2 30% channel 5 violet only by Jason, on Flickr

Photon v2 30% channel 5 violet only by Jason, on Flickr


My Conclusion:
I have to say the Seneye was right there shoulder to shoulder with the Apogee. Both were live readings so constantly changing but well with in 10 of each other and criss crossing. The Seneye also has the edge here in that it also provides the LUX, Spectral range, and PUR. I was skeptical on if the Spectral Range and PUR was accurate but after going through the individual channels I'm feeling pretty comfy with at least the Spectral Ranges. The latest firmware update and the Seneye really make for one heck of a good value for a light meter! I give the edge here to the Seneye for value and features!

 

[Ron Reefman]

That's why I'd like to know what,if any, PUR vs PAR reading you get just using the green led which based on the info provided, should be very close to zero PUR and still have a much higher PAR level. That is, more than the 2/3 to 3/4 percentage you are getting for PUR vs PAR over all spectrum.

 

[jason2459]

That's why I'd like to know what,if any, PUR vs PAR reading you get just using the green led which based on the info provided, should be very close to zero PUR and still have a much higher PAR level. That is, more than the 2/3 to 3/4 percentage you are getting for PUR vs PAR over all spectrum.

Great questions and opens up for more analysis.

The Green Channel has low PUR. Comparing the Green vs. Red is good as both are 3watt LEDs and only 2 LEDs per cluster.

Red channel had the highest PUR which makes sense since the RB's are supposed to be 660nm which is right smack on the Chlorphyl B's line.

Channel 1 Deep Red @30% I read a PAR of 7 and a PUR of 93%.
Channel 2 520nm Green @ 30% I read a PAR of 7 as well but a PUR of 33%

Which the Carotenoid green in the PUR graph above has a bit of green at 500nm with a steep drop off. So, 520 green wouldn't hit that so well so makes sense the PUR is so low.

And the Kelvin reading actually fills in some information that backs this up as well.


The White channel which I find yellow had a kelvin reading of 4500 but showed a wider spectrum with a larger amount in the blue green nm and into the yellow/red then the green only. So, it's PUR was a higher % then the green channel with a PUR 56% because it has more wavelengths closer to that 500nm peak but also has a wider range of a full spectrum allowing it to not be green in color. But the fact it includes more toward that blue/green spectrum then the green shows in the PUR and Kelvin reading.

Great questions and as I analyze the readings I'm finding it makes more and more sense.

Edit corrected

 

[jason2459]

FYI here's the RAW data for PUR and time schedule

 

[Ron Reefman]

Jason, do I assume correctly that all the PUR, LUX and K readings are from the Seneye sensor?

 

[jason2459]

Jason, do I assume correctly that all the PUR, LUX and K readings are from the Seneye sensor?

That is correct and PAR spot checked with the Apogee which lines up together. The Seneye includes three separate sensors for LUX, Spectrum, and PAR. Then calculates PUR based on Spectrum and PAR. Edit: and calculates the Kelvin based on the Spectrum which it fails to do when in the blue side as it reaches infinity. I believe their limit is 10,000 K and fails after that.

 

[oreo57]

Not to pick a nit .. but all that can be done w/ one sensor "unit" and math..
http://dsp.stackexchange.com/questi...ature-of-the-light-source-illuminating-an-ima

 

[jason2459]

Not to pick a nit .. but all that can be done w/ one sensor "unit" and math..
http://dsp.stackexchange.com/questi...ature-of-the-light-source-illuminating-an-ima

Oh, I'm sure. The Universe can be solved through math.

Edit: And I'm not sure if those 3 separate senors work together and the rest is calculated out our if they are indeed 3 separate sensors for each. It's not clear in the description.

Edit: just looked at that link and that is what the Seneye does to figure out the PUR and Kelvin is some math based on the spectrum it sees. I believe I stated that above if not in the PAR shootout thread.

 

[Editour2]

I was following the thread "RB's Photon V2 is out" and now this thread.
Jason....I roughly have the same tank as you and was considering 2 x photon 32" V2's. I currently have 3 Reeftech LED fixtures rated @ 180 watts using 60 3 watt Cree LEDs in each fixture, (which are now 5 years old), combined with 4X 80 watt T5 bulbs. At the time that I purchased my LED fixtures only 3 colors & channels were available...those being cool white, royal blue and blue. I didn't like the growth or lack thereof and added the 4 x T5's. I am now considering new LED units. Like a lot of other folks I looked into the Radion G4's, Mitras LX7 & Orphek Atlantik V4 series and of course these photon V2's. Each Mitras LX7206 has the same # of LED's (72) and has about 195 watts of power. I considered using 3 units at about $750 each, ($2250 total). The thing that concerns me about only purchasing 2 V2 32" units ($1000) was that each unit has 72 LEDs (like each Mitras unit) with about 220 watts total power. So I was not sure of using 2 of the Photon V2 32" compared to 3 of the Mitras and possibly 4 of the G4's. You have now raised the bar by using 4 of these units.... Obviously part of the appeal on the photons is the price point....$2250 versus $1000 but if you are purchasing 4 of the units then the decision becomes more difficult....$2250 versus $2000. The Mitras has 9 channels and endless programmability versus the Photons, although with 4 units you probably have greater distribution/lightspread. I think 2 units is debatable coverage while 4 is definitely GOT IT COVERED....never mind adding the T5's on top of that. But...just curious why you didn't select 1 of the higher end brands since you still ending up spending higher brand money...