Reef Ceramics
- Thread starter jerryz
- Start date
mr.wilson
.Registered Member
Pick up a quick drying pre-mix and add an equal amount of oyster shell. If you need it to be more sticky, add less shell. Apply it it small batches by hand with rubber gloves. You can do thick areas in one coat. Add water to the consistency of mashed potatoes. This will give you a few more minutes to work with, and the right malleability. Spray the finished product with a weak acid to etch it to stabilize and seal.
Concrete bonding agents are white glue based. As such, they are water soluble, and will dissolve when you fill the tank. You may have better luck with yellow carpenters glue, but I find the step unnecessary.
You can achieve the same results with a 50/50 portland & shell mix, but it's a lot more work to stabilize and cure. Polymer modified mixes can be filled in 24 hours. You may have some mild calcium precipitate, but nothing toxic.
I use lag bolts to make faux fossils and machine screws to make worm holes and coral plug bases. You could also bond plastic nuts within the concrete, and affix a corresponding plastic screw to corals.
The colour matches that of live rock, so there's no need for tinting the mix, but such dyes are available for building supply stores. If you're really ambitious, you can paint the surface to look like coraline algae with epoxy or two-step polyurethane paint. I don't bother as coraline grows in about six months.
Let me know if you have any other questions.
mr.wilson
.Registered Member
I assume you're asking about the ceramic product and not the shotcrete application I did? In my case it was applied directly to the glass and acrylic with no seams.
You could use backer board (the cement panels that you use in showers and behind tiles) and build them off site and bond them in situ with silicone. I assume this is how the ceramic panels are affixed.
You might get some detritus or borrowing animals behind the panels, but sealing the seams with silicone or shotcrete will solve this issue.
Icefire
Seasoned reefer
Looking on Thoro wbsite, Thorite isn't NSF potable water certified
Quickwall look EPA approved for potable water..
KING Plug-Tite only say use for cistern, storage tank.
Well I want to make a backwall than put it in the tank. I guess I could seal with silicone, but it must be removable.
mr.wilson
.Registered Member
Quickwall is what the engineer at Quikrete recommended I use.
I guess something can be certified for a cistern or well, but not considered safe for drinking water (potable) because it's assumed that a filter of some sort will be employed after the water leaves the cistern and or well.
I doubt that any data exists whether or not cement backer board is certified for potable water.
If you aren't worried about anaerobic zones or detritus traps, you could make panels and lean them against the wall. Gravity, a few well placed retaining rocks, and some clamps at the top, will hold it in place. These things are quite heavy, so don't expect it to go far.
Applying the cement mix directly to the wall is the easiest way to go, but it is permanent. The only concern I can think of with regard to covering a large wall, is it may effect the flexibility of the back panel. This is more likely to be a benefit than a detractor, if it is true.
I guess something can be certified for a cistern or well, but not considered safe for drinking water (potable) because it's assumed that a filter of some sort will be employed after the water leaves the cistern and or well.
I doubt that any data exists whether or not cement backer board is certified for potable water.
If you aren't worried about anaerobic zones or detritus traps, you could make panels and lean them against the wall. Gravity, a few well placed retaining rocks, and some clamps at the top, will hold it in place. These things are quite heavy, so don't expect it to go far.
Applying the cement mix directly to the wall is the easiest way to go, but it is permanent. The only concern I can think of with regard to covering a large wall, is it may effect the flexibility of the back panel. This is more likely to be a benefit than a detractor, if it is true.
Icefire
Seasoned reefer
Well it's for a 50G tank, 36"Lx20"Hx16"W.
Doing a 2inch average thickness (crack, cave, etc) 36x20inch would need 1440 cubic inch.
A 50lbs bag give 900 cubic inch so rouhtly, it would weight 80lbs+ outch.
I could basicly use some foam as a back and carve it a bit then add QuickWall... Hope it won't float.
Where did you get QW?
Doing a 2inch average thickness (crack, cave, etc) 36x20inch would need 1440 cubic inch.
A 50lbs bag give 900 cubic inch so rouhtly, it would weight 80lbs+ outch.
I could basicly use some foam as a back and carve it a bit then add QuickWall... Hope it won't float.
Where did you get QW?
mr.wilson
.Registered Member
Home Hardware and Home Depot can special order it. There's some info on this gardening forum. Check out some of the galleries for some pictures of hypertufa projects.
http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/hypertufa/msg1016300720440.html?20
http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/hypertufa/msg0821220421052.html?55
http://www.forwell.net/
http://www.quikrete.net/
You can learn some more methods by doing a search for hypertufa. They use silica sand and peat moss, but it's the same idea. Fiberglass cloth will give it some body.
Another brand name for shotcrete is gunite. A search for gunite might turn up some more good info. Try to find some applications where it has been used in zoos and public aquariums.
The Biodome in Montreal has extensive shotcrete work in all of their displays. You might get some guidance from the curator. There are lots of pictures on their site http://www.biodome.qc.ca/
You can also silicone glass shelves to the back wall and cover them for a more dramatic look. You could also make a PVC skeleton with 45 & 90 elbows, and some tees, then cover it with shotcrete.
http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/hypertufa/msg1016300720440.html?20
http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/hypertufa/msg0821220421052.html?55
http://www.forwell.net/
http://www.quikrete.net/
You can learn some more methods by doing a search for hypertufa. They use silica sand and peat moss, but it's the same idea. Fiberglass cloth will give it some body.
Another brand name for shotcrete is gunite. A search for gunite might turn up some more good info. Try to find some applications where it has been used in zoos and public aquariums.
The Biodome in Montreal has extensive shotcrete work in all of their displays. You might get some guidance from the curator. There are lots of pictures on their site http://www.biodome.qc.ca/
You can also silicone glass shelves to the back wall and cover them for a more dramatic look. You could also make a PVC skeleton with 45 & 90 elbows, and some tees, then cover it with shotcrete.
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
This is not exactly the case. They are two very different products. One is "wet gunned" the other "dry gunned"
Shotcrete is a term to describe wet gunned concrete. The concrete is batch mixed and pumped via a pneumatically driven sprayer. In other words, the concrete is mixed and dumped into a hopper where istons press the concrete into a chamber and compressed air at 120 PSI shoves it down the hose and out the end of the "rabbit".
Gunnite is very different and is brand named type of Dry Gunned concrete. Water and dry material are pressurized and pumped seperatley to the nozzle where the operator controls the mixture.
Being picky... yeah I guess. But then again now we all learned something
BTW Dry gunning is used for most pools and similar features. Shotcrete is used for larger structures like domes and tunnels.
Then again I used to spray TekFlex... a cement and polymer mixture for strata control in the mining industry. Gunite used to be the product of choice, but does not offer enough flex...
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
Anyway what I am not understanding is using the terms "gunite" or "shotcrete" when talking about a 50 gallon tank.
Exactly what are you shooting the concrete out of on such a small scale?
Exactly what are you shooting the concrete out of on such a small scale?
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
btw nice looking setup mr.wilson
mr.wilson
.Registered Member
You are correct, the mixture is not "shot" out of anything. I was using the term liberally, in the spirit of public aquarium display structure practices. This method is applied by hand. Sticking to existing names helps narrow searches and eliminate confusion.
The common term "aragocrete" does not apply, as the mixture doesn't contain aragonite.
It doesn't qualify as "hypertufa", as it lacks the peat moss content. Introducing a new name like "shellcrete" only adds more to the confusion. The term "faux wall" is too broad and doesn't exclude other methods such as fiberglass or latex.
Using the manufacturers name "Quikwall", excludes other brands like "Greatwall" and "Thorite" etc. I've seen the term "Thorite" used in other threads and noticed that people got stuck on the brand name and had difficulty sourcing a local supplier.
The term "shotcrete" can remain if the scale of the job increases. I'll use the term "sprayed on" or "applied by hand" according to the size of the tank. I'm building a 1600 gallon tank soon, and I would like to stick to one "common" term.
I'm open to suggestions for a concise title.
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
You may call it whatever you like I just wanted to fill in the blanks for those who have never seen the distinction between dry and wet gunned concrete or similar mixtures. I was also not sure if you actually did spray the stuff on your larger scale tank. It looks great whatever you did.
I just wanted to fill in the blanks for those who have never seen the distinction between dry and wet gunned concrete or similar mixtures. I was also not sure if you actually did spray the stuff on your larger scale tank. It looks great whatever you did.
mr.wilson
.Registered Member
I've tried it, but salt interferes with the hydraulic curing process. As the rock salt dissolves, it softens the cement and you lose the hand made texture around it. You also lose some of the bond if there's a lot of salt.
I found that sea salt for human consumption was too fine, and dissolved instantly. Water softener salt is too uniform, and doesn't leave natural looking patterns. Another problem was the 1" layer of concrete allowed the glass panel to show once the salt had melted.
Perhaps I didn't use the salt properly.
If you make the mixture the same consistency as clay, you can use a series of screw drivers, nails, and screws to make holes and textures. my favorite technic is the faux fossils made by large lag bolts.
Adding salt probably works better with DIY rock where it's harder to shape & carve by hand.
TwentyTwenty
New member
They do show up. Burn them off with a torch when you are done.
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