Reef fish

[Allmost]

Hello,
does anyone know how the reef fishes, or all saltwater fish, for this hobby, have been caught ?

what are some of the methods used ? if anyone knows ?

fishing line, hook and krill as bait ? lol

 

[elegance coral]

Most of them, especially those from reputable collectors, are caught with nets.

 

[Allmost]

one by one ? or mass caught ?

any-one actually know first hand ??? as of seen it, worked for a company that did it, as the diver/fish ? lol


would be nice to get a reply from someone who knows as a fact, we can all guess

 

[jeff@zina.com]

Okay, facts:

Many fish are caught by net. A seine is used to concentrate fish and a diver uses a hand net to select individuals.

Some fish are still caught using cyanide. A mix is squirted across the reef that stuns and kills many of the fish. The stunned ones are bagged, the dead ones are left. The stunned ones often die later.

Some fish are still caught as a by-product of food fishing. The fishermen pull up a catch net with food fish and separate the aquarium species for sale through that chain.

Some fish are aquacultured, either in ocean pens or nets or in tanks on shore.

All of this is easily found out with some simple Google/Bing searches and there are plenty of videos available.

http://www.lead.org/page/547
http://www.neaq.org/conservation_an...pages/SustainableOrnamentalFishInitiative.php
http://www.gtz.de/de/dokumente/en-lesson2-marine-ornamental-fish-trade.pdf


Jeff

 

[gon08]

Some collectors use Quinaldine sulfate a fish anesthetic. It is used by some vets to perform procedures or tests on fish. I don't believe it has any negative lasting effects on the fish. It allows collectors to target specific fish and reduces stress from being chased. I know there is a collector in the keys that collects deep water fish for public aquariums that uses it. Fish that are collected in deep waters need to be decompressed by inserting a hypodermic needle into the swim bladder and releasing the air pressure. This is easier and safer to do when the fish is sedated.

 

[jeff@zina.com]

Other methods are spear gun (yep, tiny barbs that hook the fish) and hook and line (usually barbless hooks). Slurp guns are common with some fish, though more in the seahorse arena.

Jeff

 

[Sharpie_]

It's good to re-affirm the knowledge I previously believed to be true, thanks Jeff.

 

[Allmost]

thanks guys, alot of good info ... just as Ive been told lol

so that's why soooo many of the fish are not so well when they make it to a store around me ..

I personally am willing to pay more, for fish that are caught correctly. and the fisherman in indo. would also not use cyanide, if we offered him twice the price for the fish !

Saltwater fish in general should be more expensive IMHO. hey ! it would lower the death of fish as well ! we wont have so many in experienced reefers buying fish they cant keep saying meh, its only 50 bucks ...

thanks again. if anyone gets any inside info/new info, please post it here

 

[Reefing Newbie]

I personally think that we need to pay more for the fish that are properly caught. Also advances in fish breeding need to be made for the saltwater hobby. Yes there are a few species that need enourmous tanks, but I think several of the big name zoos/aquariums in the world should have room for some if not most of them for breeding. But it comes down to the fact that more accurate details should be taken while observing wild fish spawning. That is just my 2c

 

[gon08]

I personally think that we need to pay more for the fish that are properly caught. Also advances in fish breeding need to be made for the saltwater hobby. Yes there are a few species that need enourmous tanks, but I think several of the big name zoos/aquariums in the world should have room for some if not most of them for breeding. But it comes down to the fact that more accurate details should be taken while observing wild fish spawning. That is just my 2c

The problem is not the size of the tank or lack of observation, it's the breeding method itself. Most fish are open water spawners releasing eggs and sperm into the current. The fertilized eggs drift where they develop into larvae and eventually settle in safe areas to grow and further develop. To date there is no way to replicate this in captivity. There are several species of fish that are being collected as plankton in their laval stages but that is a gamble at best cause you have no way of knowing what you are collecting. You can bet that if it were possible someone would be doing it.

 

[Chris27]

Let's also not forget that the islanders that collect the fish are paid pennies for their efforts in collecting livestock. The cost of a fish here is the states is to cover the overhead fees and logistics involved with getting it to LA, and on to the various LFS's around the country.

Knowing what I know about how much island people get paid and how they are treated, I would venture to say they get the same amount of money for collecting a black tang as they would for any other reef fish.

 

[Allmost]

Let's also not forget that the islanders that collect the fish are paid pennies for their efforts in collecting livestock. The cost of a fish here is the states is to cover the overhead fees and logistics involved with getting it to LA, and on to the various LFS's around the country.

Knowing what I know about how much island people get paid and how they are treated, I would venture to say they get the same amount of money for collecting a black tang as they would for any other reef fish.

+! EXACTLY !

they are expecting the guy who makes next to nothing, who uses that money to feed their kids, to not use cyanide while catching fish ! or care if a fish's gills are harmed ! why would he care ? lol

pay him twice, and say, be nicer to the fish, and I am sure they would do it ! cause after all, generation after generation, they have made living form the ocean ! they are the first ones that do not want to see it go away !

 

[Chris27]

+! EXACTLY !

they are expecting the guy who makes next to nothing, who uses that money to feed their kids, to not use cyanide while catching fish ! or care if a fish's gills are harmed ! why would he care ? lol

pay him twice, and say, be nicer to the fish, and I am sure they would do it ! cause after all, generation after generation, they have made living form the ocean ! they are the first ones that do not want to see it go away !

I'm with you, but ensuring those folks get paid more is much more difficult then one can imagine, there are just too many hands in the pot so to speak. Being on an island in the middle of the ocean makes it hard to educate themselves in advertising and commerce.....often times all they know is that the white man's checks won't bounce, and he pays on time.

 

[GreshamH]

Other methods are spear gun (yep, tiny barbs that hook the fish) and hook and line (usually barbless hooks). Slurp guns are common with some fish, though more in the seahorse arena.

Jeff

Slurp guns are pretty much a 1st world device, and are horrid around any sandy environment.

Dragonets are collected with the mini spear guns, but all barbs are removed

Quin is really only used, and permitted use, in the US (and some Caribbean). besides that, quin is really only used in scientific circles.

Jawfish typically are collected on hook and line (UW of course) using a small barbless hook.

For some eels a small noose is used.

 

[GreshamH]

I'm with you, but ensuring those folks get paid more is much more difficult then one can imagine, there are just too many hands in the pot so to speak. Being on an island in the middle of the ocean makes it hard to educate themselves in advertising and commerce.....often times all they know is that the white man's checks won't bounce, and he pays on time.

Cyanide is costly, MUCH costlier then not using it and hard to get

Nets are far more effective.

CN is used as a way to keep collectors in debt to the middle man or exporter. Like company towns used to keep miners and such in debt.

 

[fish_dave]

There are many divers that get paid much more than just pennies for their fish, unless you are counting pennies by the hundreds. And as for a fisherman getting the same amount for a black tang as for any other fish that is totally untrue. Fish divers know very well what each type of fish is worth and they bargin for the highest price they can get. The price paid for a black tang will be an order of magnitude higher than that paid for common damsels or algae blennies. I know many good fish collectors that can make upwards of 100.00 U.S. dollars per day collecting tropical fish. These guys are trained, work hard, know which fish to target to maximize their profits, and are very professional. I also know many part time collectors that struggle to make 20.00 in a day. The amount of money that is paid to the collectors now days is not insignificant.

Dave

 

[GreshamH]

There are many divers that get paid much more than just pennies for their fish, unless you are counting pennies by the hundreds. And as for a fisherman getting the same amount for a black tang as for any other fish that is totally untrue. Fish divers know very well what each type of fish is worth and they bargin for the highest price they can get. The price paid for a black tang will be an order of magnitude higher than that paid for common damsels or algae blennies. I know many good fish collectors that can make upwards of 100.00 U.S. dollars per day collecting tropical fish. These guys are trained, work hard, know which fish to target to maximize their profits, and are very professional. I also know many part time collectors that struggle to make 20.00 in a day. The amount of money that is paid to the collectors now days is not insignificant.

Dave

I would argue that there are exceptions, like PI, Indo/Bali, Vietnam, etc. But not many black tangs come out of those places

I know in Baja one of our divers got a convict tang, not seem often in Baja (larval drift from elsewhere). He thought he scored and was gonna rake it in, he was bummed to learn it is not a rare fish in general, just to his area.

 

[fish_dave]

Hey Gresham, the convict is like the guy that brought a mandarin goby in to me once, he was convinced that he had the holy grail of fish and that he was going to make a killing. He was dissapointed to learn that it is a common (and cheap) fish from Indo and Philippines. Just was rare from his area.

I think that even the collectors in PI, Indo / Bali, etc. make more than just pennies on fish anymore. The internet has spread the word about which fish bring more money than others and the divers are much more into negotiation and shopping their fish around now than they were several years ago. Some fish do bring just pennies but that is because the supply far outstrips the demand for the fish. Any in demand fish now can bring a reasonable price to the collectors. Even though the export price for many fish has stayed the same or close to it for 20 years the price that the exporters pay for those fish has gone up considerably. An export station now days has to run much more efficiently than it did 20 years ago to be profitable. You don't see nearly as many of the rich folk (often Chinese business men) in the export trade now as used to be there in the 80's and 90's. The huge profits are not there anymore. That is good for the trade because being more efficient at the export station generally means keeping the stock in better condition.

I do agree that in general the collectors in PI, Bali, etc make less per fish than many other areas but I do think that it has progressed from the sad state that things were just 10 years ago and is way ahead from 20 or 30 years ago when the trade in PI was dominated by the cyanide peddlers.

Dave

 

[GreshamH]

Good to hear Dave. Its been a while since I have been on that side so I am glad to hear PI has increased prices

People like you that care for their stations AND PEOPLE go a long way to make this industry a better place.

 

[Budda]