Reef Trendy article

[brahm]

I saw acans come through the wholesaler I worked at for two years in Los Angeles. They would come in at first and be treated like blastos or some misc. brain coral and they showed up in regular shipments - not some black market thug sneaking them in taped inside his rain coat.
The reason many people don't see the rare corals at the wholesalers is because 99% of them have a large tank hidden in a back room or sales reps office that houses the rare cherry pick items for special call in clients. If you arent seeing them you arent special. Not everyone is popular, it's a fact of life, Sorry. Some sneeches have stars.
Most walk in's are not considered special clients and are normally on their own. Unless you are a 4 or 5 thousand buck a week local that normally likes picking up the leftover junk without complaining then you are often more of a inconvenience than anything else to wholesalers.
I can think of only one Los Angeles Wholesaler that has any kind of retail outlet.
You really shouldnt make points that you have no basis on brahm yet you continue to make them over and over and over and over and over and over and don't seem to be satisfied with the fairly correct answers Anthony keeps giving you. Some people are just never happy with the answer.
How about if we have Anthony tell you that the acans are brought over here from the acan fairy and his name is charlie and he wears a big long black rain coat and sells acans and gold watches right out of the pockets from the inside. Will you feel better then? I dont know what it is about people that makes them think that the wholesalers are hiding some big secret and not letting them in on it. Get over the conspiracy theories and stop watching so many movies.
You act like you hit all the wholesalers every day and frankly thats impossible to do from Mamoth Lakes, Calif. The commute would kill you.

.. Don't patronize me i'm not a child.I just moved to mammoth lakes this past month. I wouldn't be suprised if you can't tell the diffrence lord an "misc" acan, and a favites.. Even myself and some of the most die hard lord fans have trouble with id's sometime. (more negative id, then postive..ie I can tell you for sure If i know something is..but sometimes it's hard to say if it's not.) ESPESIALY when recently imported and looking awful. We aren't talking about the echinatas @ SDC. Like I said. You talk to any retailer, ask them where they are getting there lords from.. Look @ there shipments. They are coming in through Transhipments, and tanshipments only. I did the route on Monday. Guess how many 40$ lord's I saw.. Heck, we even joked around about the mystery of the 40$ lord. It's kinda a running joke now down on 104 .

You show me a box of lords for 40$ a piece, tell me where i can get a peak @ any wholesaler.. I'll be back down on 104 next month, and i'll give you PERSONALLY 50$ and NOT try to buy a single one! Just to prove my point.


and if you think only one wholesaler is connected to an online store. I think it's you who needs to do some fact checking.

 

[Anthony Calfo]

Brahm... Fishinchick... lets keep it tame.

Please think before you hit the send key.

I have no reservation about saying that I am willing to concede and happy to see tight reigns on posts that cross the line from constructive debates/dialogues to petty bickering or regurgitating the same info/positions over and over again.

Jus Reefin... I believe fads will last as long as we support them. And that's OK/as it should be... however short or long that is. The definition of a fad, as it were.

Anthony

 

[Jus Reefin]

I agree with Anthony let's keep this cival and not argue about. My sig. say's it all. And I know of more then 1 wholesaler that has a retail/online business. There are at least 2 off the top of my head that are sponsors here. I have a buddy going to LA next week so I'll have him pick up a box of $40 Lords for me

 

[brahm]

Yes I agree as well. I was merely responding to not the kindest of posts, and I willstick to my words I'm not trying to make this a ****ing contest. Just, I know what i've seen. If i'm wrong show me. I will publically appoligize and post that I now stand corrected. Until that time this is no need to bash me for expressing my experiences just because they differ from the norm.

 

[Jus Reefin]

Hey Brahm, FWIW my expierences are the same as yours. I am not in it as deep as you but all the suppliers I talk to say the same thing. Maybe they are just hoarding them all J/K

 

[MiddletonMark]

Anthony ... to help illustrate your point on how it might not be the most `limited edition rare coral' that is the true showpiece - here's a pic that's been posted a couple times of late in the SPS forum.

Nothing `special' about this Montipora, except for the patience, care, and planning to grow it to this size. Funny how you hardly notice it's not neon-colored ... because it's far too impressive already.

[In fact, our local club had a meeting hosted by the guy whose tank this is last fall - and aptasia collection party for you ... our mutual friend Amphibious - who demonstrates how `rare' more often has to do with husbandry than genetics of the coral in question]

 

[tacocat]

My experience with Lordies has been the same as Jus Reefin. They are starting to get more common though. It's unfortunate that people are getting gouged in the process, but that's America.

I don't see how overhyped corals effect the "common hobbyist" though. Most people I know wouldn't spend over $50 on a coral anyway.

 

[brahm]

so calfo, when can i get a frag of your lord I'll swap w/you

 

[Anthony Calfo]

I have earmarked available frags in the coming months to be donated to a fundraiser (at IMAC and/or MACNA... we are working out the details) to benefit a reef conservation group.

You are encouraged to support the hobby we all love by buying raffle tickets. 100% of proceeds will go to the charity. Details to be announced ASAP.

The corals offered will include those darn beautiful Acanthastrea, as well as other popular (popular but not necessarily valuable) corals like Pulsing Sinularia and Green Polyped Sarcophytons... maybe if I can divide my lonely few polyps of Duncanopsammia in time, perhaps some of them too (I literally have only 3.5 polyps of it at present).

LA wholesalers have been very generous too to the request for donations. It should be interesting.

BTW... please feel welcome to call me "Anthony"

 

[brahm]

I was hoping to trade with you for your lord, (i think you mentioned it a few posts back) I'd much rather trade for a captive bred peice then a FOB coral

 

[Jus Reefin]

Anthony, I'm always open to donations and buying some Raffle tickets for a good cause. If you can LMK when the tickets are available and I will talk to my club ( MARS) about it as well

 

[Anthony Calfo]

to be clear here... I don't produce enough coral to donate to every/any club/hobbyist that asks I do wish I could!

For the couple dozen clubs I visit each year, I can try to bring a coral to donate to their meeting to help boost attendance, increase raffle proceeds, defray cost of my airfare, etc. I'm hoping to see more special events/fundraiser like the current plan where a group of us donates some of our cultured corals for a good cause. High traffic conferences like MACNA and IMAC are the best places to do this.

All... please do simply watch for a public notice if interested.

kind regards to all, Anthony

 

[Jus Reefin]

. I'm hoping to see more special events/fundraiser like the current plan where a group of us donates some of our cultured corals for a good cause. High traffic conferences like MACNA and IMAC are the best places to do this.

That's what I was talking about.

MARS is planning the WMC West Coast Marine Conference for April of 2006. It will be a great chance to meet all of the West Coast folks and a lot of East Coasters as Well. As well as hear from some of the top speakers in the hobby ( like yourself). We hope to have a turn out as good as IMAC and the others.

It was a pleasure to have you at our meeting and Frag Swap in Sacramento Last year. Hope to see ya at WMC

Peace
Rob

 

[Anthony Calfo]

ah, yes... great to hear of y'all (MARS) reviving the WMC! It is a great thing you do. I will be honored to attend and happy to bring coral along.

The frag swap was a blast last year too BTW Great folks

 

[nk57]

I have been following the "Acan" craze for a while. I agree and laughed about first zoos, then rics then sps now acans. I've also noticed from a few of the folks that I see stalking my LFS looking for Acans is that these folks almost have an "elitist" mentality about what they have in their tanks. I actually asked a gentleman this weekend about why he wanted an entire colony in stead of a small frag that he could nuture and grow out. This guy replied... because all the members of my club have colonies and I need one too.
I remember 15 years ago when I first got into the hobby it was all about patience and growing your livestock. Now it seems as if it has become a "Keep up with the Joneses" type of hobby. Anyway, great article Anthony.

Nancy

 

[RichSea7]

Well as I'm still REALLY new to all this, my goal when I get my Acro tank going is to mimic a specific biotope. (Nope I won't HAVE to have all 100 % authentic collected species from that part of the world [Great Barrier Reef] - just species that DO exist there, even if collected elsewhere.) I also would prefer aquacultured pieces grown from frags. ( Better survival rate, and they should already be acclimated to aquarium conditions) . Middleton Mark's Montipora picture seems much more "realistic" than the typical tanks with 100's of assorted Acros and "goodies" in a tank with every color of the rainbow, arranged like a mantle of gaudy bowling trophies.... (Don't get me wrong, those tanks ARE beautiful, it's just I've never really seen a diving picture that looks like that. )

Yep, My plans have been heavily influenced by John Tullock's "Natural Reef Aquariums" , and being a "poor" Reef enthusiast, I'll never be able to Chase the Trends......:bum: I just want a realistic looking reef set-up mimicing a tangle of staghorns with a general "Cooler" ( Blue, green. purple) background palette.

That's ok, good husbandry takes time and patience, more than just money. When I finally get my tanks set-up it will be done without cutting corners on the important stuff necessary to create a quality realistic environment for my inhabitants. That to me is worth more than having thousands of dollars of "trendy corals."

Just my thoughts as a "beginner in the hobby ".

Rich

 

[tdwyatt]

BRAVO Anthony!!!

Just got around to reading the "Reef Trendy" article, and after spending a little time discussing the issue with a few cohorts, I think you've captured the thoughts and spirits of those affected by this type of marketing.

As a farmer and trader, I can appreciate the issues with supply and demand; after all, if you have something that is truly unique, you don't want to see it walk out the door to those who keep a tank as their hobby of the week. Then again, giving the blue Tort or the Larry Jackson a price tag of three figures per inch is far and away the most outrageous practice I have seen in the hobby. I still cannot believe that there is a waiting list at these prices for an item past the time it takes to have a good supply develop within the hobby (think Red BTA's here...)


There MUST be some middle ground...


Thanks for taking the time to pen this article in your inimitable style.

 

[Anthony Calfo]

thanks kindly, Tom

and a good point about those waiting lists. They are the quintessential example of just how ridiculous (if not outright misleading/dishonest) the marketing is of the overpriced frags by some aquarists.

Really... lets consider it another way. They are taking a colony in ones system, for example, that produces 2 frags per month... and then taking the current waitlist for 100 pcs and calling tha a 4 year wait?!?! Hahahhahahahhahahahahhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahha. Woohooo... ahhahah... oooh. Thas a good one.

An honest man (to the hobby and to his business) would stall sales for 6-12 months, build the broodstock up to a critical mass that generated 100 frags per month. Make more money in the short term (1-3 years) and not have to make mention of some ridiculous wait list based on marketing or ignorance, and not on any real cycle of harvest.

That's real framing as far as I'm concerned. Just my opinion

The price gougers will have an argument against that though They would not be any good at their "job" if they didn't

 

[floppyfish]

Great article. However I am hoping you could touch into the skimmer aspect of it a little more. I want to know the 'how' and 'why' the smaller skimmers could be just as good as a larger one.

Personally, I am getting a ASM G1 for my 40 breeder project and am delighted by your findings. But, I want to be able to understand why a larger one is not needed. Other than saying, "Anthony Calfo says so"...

I can kind of understand, but then I think a larger skimmer has more surface area for more bubbles, therefor more skimate is produced. I just can't seem to grasp the concept quite yet.

Matt

 

[Anthony Calfo]

we happen to have a thread on the very topic you seek:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=514199

I think the ASM G3 is one of the best all round skimmers FWIW (super value... and a skimmer that can run almost any hobby sized aquarium. Think upgrading for future tanks)