Reefstock March 8th at the Curtis Hotel

[murfman]

Larry, Like I said before, I was the treasurer for SCMAS when every one split. Eric L was our president and what was told to me was that RMRC wanted to be the main club for the Front Range and that we would all be regional clubs underneath them. We would pay any dues or moneys collected via raffles to RMRC and they would give us a budget to spend and that our club had to follow RMRC's by laws. That was unacceptable to us.

Murf

 

[freddie40]

DARC was also told that RMRC wanted to be the main club and that DARC HAD to follow RMRC's by-laws. Thus we would have had to give all of our funds to RMRC and then ask for money on an as need basis. We also would have to follow RMRC's policy of charging our members for pretty much everything, and would have been forbidden to hold Frag Swaps. This is not what our members wanted.

With RMRC it is all about the money.

With DARC it is all about the people and the hobby.

Dave

 

[larryl]

Huhhhhh, Murf and Dave -

I can appreciate your viewpoints and the RMRC chapter stuff obviously caused a lot of friction, but as far as I care it's past history and shouldn't matter any more. RMRC has the idea that if people want to join and contribute to the club financially, then that money can be used to do bigger and better events, and there are over 90 paying members who are fine with that. SCMAS and DARC take a different approach about how to raise funds for events and that's fine too. ReefEd 2008 and ReefStock 2008 were both good events and were good for the reefers in the area, which is all that really matters. I'm not trying to debate the relative merits of how to run a club, I'm just saying that going forward we need to figure out a way to work together so we can put on more and better events.


Larry

 

[murfman]

Larry, I agree 100%. If we work together we stand a better chance of having a top notch event in Denver. Isn't that all of our goals?

 

[miwoodar]

You had better not cancel plans for next year! I didn't get to make this one!

FWIW: When I read this thread, I see a lot of wedges being driven into old cracks. It's too bad. It's so much easier to tear things apart than it is to put them together. It's not progress though. I'm looking forward to more joint events - I don't think the politics of the clubs should get in the way of the fact that we are all here for the same reason - REEFING. If I wanted to make bickering my hobby, I would go somewhere else. .

 

[coralite]

I think the biggest problem we had at REEFSTOCK was the badges. No matter how I put on the card it still faced away. How in the hell do we get the badges to face the right way?

 

[Clown-N-Around]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12081200#post12081200 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by larryl
Huhhhhh, Murf and Dave -

I can appreciate your viewpoints and the RMRC chapter stuff obviously caused a lot of friction, but as far as I care it's past history and shouldn't matter any more. RMRC has the idea that if people want to join and contribute to the club financially, then that money can be used to do bigger and better events, and there are over 90 paying members who are fine with that. SCMAS and DARC take a different approach about how to raise funds for events and that's fine too. ReefEd 2008 and ReefStock 2008 were both good events and were good for the reefers in the area, which is all that really matters. I'm not trying to debate the relative merits of how to run a club, I'm just saying that going forward we need to figure out a way to work together so we can put on more and better events.


Larry

I think Larry said it very well and I agree with him and murf that cooperating can only lead to better things for all hobbyists in Colorado.

To add to what Larry said regarding "RMRC has the idea that if people want to join and contribute to the club financially, then that money can be used to do bigger and better events." The only reason we are so into following our bylaws is that when we accept money from a membership, we want it to be very clear that we are accountable for spending the money on the club. We want to have accounting practices that stand up to the scrutiny of our members and the government. We would never want anyone to speculate that, for example, the money taken at a chapter meeting raffle happened to wind up in someone's personal pocketbook. I don't see this as being greedy or controlling, but rather as an acknowledgement that we are here to serve our members and the community with any funds collected and are willing to be accountable for that.

I have no issues that DARC or SCMAS chooses to run their clubs another way. Great! Appealing to different people makes us better able to serve all reefers no matter how they feel about club politics. Politics should be a distant second to supporting the hobbyist community, and I hope we can all remember that and work together to do some cool things on occasion.

 

[Clown-N-Around]

BTW - in acknowledgement that the chapter thing caused more tension and confusion than good, the board has proposed to our premium members a bylaw change that removes the chapters concept. Voting is open for a couple more days, but it is currently passing at almost 100%.

 

[larryl]

I think the biggest problem we had at REEFSTOCK was the badges. No matter how I put on the card it still faced away. How in the hell do we get the badges to face the right way?

Got me...

 

[The Grim Reefer]

Can't we all just get along

I aint a joiner because I want to have fun. It's a friggin hobby. I don't want to have to refer to Robert's Rules of Order whenever something needs to be discussed. That is the attraction of the DARC club to me.

I have in my own small little way supported all 3 clubs. I had some "samples" of products and I sent some pumps and salt up north with the understanding they would be sold raffled or whatever with the proceeds going to RMRC. Did the same thing with some lighting equipment for the southern club. Both were worth quite a bit more than the yearly membership fee if I wanted to sell it but that isn't what it was intended for. Most of the stuff was sold on the very cheap with the proceeds going to DARC to help them get started. It isn't so much about the money with me, its the overall philosophy.

I wasn't here for the original breakup that led to the friction around here so I don't know exactly what happened. I have heard enough stories from people on both side to know there is a lot of animosity that needs to be delt with. You guys are missing a opportunity to have a really good thing.

 

[Zooid]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12081372#post12081372 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by coralite
I think the biggest problem we had at REEFSTOCK was the badges. No matter how I put on the card it still faced away. How in the hell do we get the badges to face the right way?

Velcro on the back of the badge Jake hehe

 

[Zooid]

I support any club that wants to increase the knowledge of the members. I personally think that all the clubs do some good so when I get a chance to donate, I'll donate to all of them.
I, for one, wish that more emphasis was placed on captive propagation of not only corals but of fish. The more livestock that we can propagate without ripping it off the natural reefs, the better it will be. I'm not a tree hugger or fish hugger in this case(far from it) but that's why I'm in the hobby. I'm starting with invertebrates, then I'll work up to fish. I think SCMAS has a chance to really run in this area because Joe already grows so much plankton that food would be plentiful for the fry.
OK, I went off on a tangent, sorry. My point is that ALL the clubs are great and I'd be extremely disappointed to see any of them shun one another. I want to be a part of ALL of them.
thanks for listening.

 

[reefkoi]

I am still baffled why a few of you think we should run an event together with the RMRC. Can you guys explain to me how Reefstock would have been any bigger or have been a "blowout event" because the 2 clubs "collaborated"?

I have enough trouble keeping up with all the emails, PM's and phone calls for the club and all the events we put together, I can't even imagine adding to that mix splitting up duties and tying up loose ends with people I don't even know.

I have brought up some of the remarks Christina made to me on the phone a month or so ago with a couple board members down here and there is nobody that I have talked to that feels we need to collaborate on any future events.

I just want to make that clear and in a few short months any one of you can take over the board down here and run this club however you want to and maybe mix it up with the Denver clubs, thats fine with me. I don't want to sound sarcastic with any of this but these things have been discussed and honestly there is nobody (including me) that wants to work with the RMRC at this point in time.

Next year will bring on a new board and a whole batch of new ideas. I think we have done good things without help thusfar and I see no reason to muddle it all up.

Chris

 

[miwoodar]

It's easier to take things apart .

 

[adams0816]

Chris I think that most people just want us both on good terms. I think they like both clubs & that they want to see us both on a good footing with each other.

 

[Huhhhhh]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12081372#post12081372 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by coralite
I think the biggest problem we had at REEFSTOCK was the badges. No matter how I put on the card it still faced away. How in the hell do we get the badges to face the right way?

I think Joe can print the image on both sides next time.

As far as running events together I think the best approach may be which ever club want's to throw an event can run the event how ever they want, and the other two clubs can show up and set up a table if they want and help out where ever they can. That way there is no hassle of splitting the procedes in any way and we can support each other with attendance an volunteer help to the club throwing the event.

I know the other two clubs have been more than welcome to attend our events and we have been welcome to attend theirs as well.

It seems like all the major drama happened before my time here. I think there are a lot of new people who missed that part and will be more than happy when all the hard feeling are buried.

We'll all get this figured out. We all want and are interested in the same thing here.

 

[deepblue&you]

Listen to all of you it sounds like friggen play ground at an elementary school because some threw a piece of grass an another. I thought we were all fellow fraggers trying to look at the bigger picture. I think we all want the same things its just a few bad apples still exist. or we just cant get over the fact that little mikey called me a bad name. come on seriously are we not adults here. I really agree with huhhh let join force Luke and fight the big battle instead of the old playground poopy in the pants stuff. We all sound like broken records tatteling to our mommies

Sorry But grow up you all really should read what you are writing.

 

[Zooid]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12084610#post12084610 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Huhhhhh
I think Joe can print the image on both sides next time.

As far as running events together I think the best approach may be which ever club want's to throw an event can run the event how ever they want, and the other two clubs can show up and set up a table if they want and help out where ever they can. That way there is no hassle of splitting the procedes in any way and we can support each other with attendance an volunteer help to the club throwing the event.

I think that's a great idea.....that's all that I was trying to get across is that I'd like to help if I could with ANY of the clubs.

<edit> One of these days I'll learn to spell right the first time.

 

[bmb527]

Frankly, I agree with Grim. This is a freakin' hobby. No need to make it more expensive than it already is. That is why I like the structure of DARC and SCMAS. I was a big fan of RMRC back in 02 and up till 05. Then it seemed to become more of a business and a bunch of yuppies trying to impress the world. I'm not impressed. I am just looking to keep the critters in my little glass box happy and healthy. In doing so, I learn things. When someone is having a problem, if I have a possible solution, I offer help. I will also help move peoples tanks, or if in need, I will even come help them work on their cars or houses. In my eyes that is what a club is about,... helping each other learn or just lend a helping hand. I don't need to pay dues to do that.
As for the animosity between clubs, it is stupid. While none of the clubs need to "team up" to produce an event, all the clubs are welcome at any event and can set up a table. Why push for anything more? I think that each club has its strengths and attracts like minded people. Nothing wrong with that. I say lets just keep it simple, as Grimm said, "Its a freaking hobby".
Bill

 

[Clown-N-Around]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12083049#post12083049 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by reefkoi
I am still baffled why a few of you think we should run an event together with the RMRC. …

I don't want to sound sarcastic with any of this but these things have been discussed and honestly there is nobody (including me) that wants to work with the RMRC at this point in time.

Sorry, Chris, but it seems like a fairly mutual thing to wish the clubs would cooperate.

Deuce mentioned it first:

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12049986#post12049986 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Deuce67
We will try to do better next time. We can learn from our mistakes and correct them later. Thats all we can do right? I have no regrets in donating my time to help out in this and if RMRC and SCMAS decide to join forces and have a much bigger and better one in the future, you can prolly expect me and a big part of SCMAS to be there again and help out. Anyways, to all who came and attended, thank you so much for coming.

I replied:

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12052091#post12052091 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Clown-N-Around
Glad I was able to make it. Props to all of the hard work you guys did - it is NOT easy and I think your hard work paid off. I was disappointed that we didn't hear about it in time to help out. I think it would be awesome if we all did a big blow out event in the future I am sure more helpers can only make for a better event.

Then Larry mentioned:

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12079416#post12079416 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by larryl
As far as I'm concerned, the more events that happen in the area the better, no matter who puts them on. If the clubs can work together and that helps to make things happen or share speaker/venue costs or whatever, even better, but in any case area reefers get something of value out of it.
Larry

And murfman replied:

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12081212#post12081212 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by murfman
Larry, I agree 100%. If we work together we stand a better chance of having a top notch event in Denver. Isn't that all of our goals?

Several people mentioned it, I don’t see it as a big conspiracy on the part of RMRC to “MAKE” you do something with us.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12083049#post12083049 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by reefkoi
I have brought up some of the remarks Christina made to me on the phone a month or so ago with a couple board members down here and there is nobody that I have talked to that feels we need to collaborate on any future events.

You are right that I did mention on the phone that one large event might be better for everyone than two speaker events two weeks apart. With higher attendance, the only cost that really goes up is food. The conference room and plane tickets for speakers, etc. are expensive no matter what. I know we don't NEED to collaborate, but if we can afford to lower admission costs by splitting expenses among more attendees, that allows more people access to the education which I see as a great thing.



However, if you and your board want to do this:

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12071331#post12071331 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by reefkoi
I think we may stick to C/S shows and let the RMRC give you guys all the shows up there. …

We'll concentrate our effort on the C/S show every October and try to get over the many logistics problems we had in Denver.

Great! More power to you and we will continue to let you invite our members to your events and will continue to invite your members to ours. Since you have shared this on in your club’s section of our RMRC forum:

http://www.rmrc.info/mambo/index.php?option=com_simpleboard&Itemid=56&func=view&id=4768&catid=33 “Our Fall Frag Swap & Conference in going to be on October 4th 2008 at the Crowne Plaza hotel in Colorado Springs. Just wanted to give you a heads up on the date, we'll give you guys the details later in the year. chris”

That gives us plenty of time to avoid any scheduling conflicts and possibly get a massive carpool going or even rent a bus or something.

Even simple cooperation like sharing dates when we set them will help us to support each other without having to directly do an event together.

Maybe someday we will all be able to “bury the hatchet” and work together on an event. For now, I can’t see any reason why we can’t peacefully coexist, share our event date information with each other, and continue to let anyone in Colorado attend the events of whichever club or clubs they want to.