Refractometer a must?

[rayjay]

My certified calibrated hydrometer I keep in its box and when I take it out, I use extreme caution and only use it in the column cylinder designed for its use.
I broke my original one from my set I used in my lab days and didn't want it to happen again so I'm cautious when using it and only use it to verify my Seatest ones.
As for the Seatest box swing arms, mine are the old box style that you can remove the swing arm.
I shaved the weight for one, until it read correctly, and shaved the float material for the other to bring it down to read correct. It has never changed since.

 

[travis32]

I'm sure any measurement tool is subject to error. However, my experience is that my $45. Refrac just saved me close to $200 in livestock and I'm not exagerating, if I consider the old live stock as well as the new, probably a lot more than that.

My deep six, showed I was at 1.026. Had a grama and blenny, along with a CUC and Sally light foot.

The light foot died and I couldn't figure out why. All my parameters were perfect. SG, Ammonia, nitrates, nitrites, ph, alk, everything.

I had been pondering a refrac and decided to order. My light foot died about a week before I had new livestock coming and needed to know what was wrong fast. I got the refrac, and tested with calibration fluid and my tank twice, once before calibration and once after. The calibration was spot on out of the box. The readings were the same before and after: 1.030 - 1.031. Bordering on lethal to livestock. My guess is the high salinity killed my lightfoot.

My hydromiter still read 1.026 even after sooking in warm water over night, getting all the bubbles off, everything.

Over the course of a week I lowered the salinity slowly to 1.026 based on the refrac. I wondered why the Grama and blenny I purchased locally were in 1.019 water. I had to acclimate them to 1.030 water. Which, I am surprised they survived now.

When my new livestock came I tested their water. They were between 1.23 and 1.025.

I could acclimate very quickly because of the closeness of their water to mine. If hadn't lowered my salinity, I'm sure I would have killed something trying to acclimated them to 1.030 water.

Not to mention how much salt I was using to maintain 1.030. I use significantly less salt now!!

I'm keeping the hydrometer so I always will know if my refrac starts getting off. If it's not .005 different from my refrac readings, then I know there's something wrong.

And my hydro reads .005 LESS than my refrac. I don't know what max sg inverts and fish can tolerate, but, I've read anything above 1.030 can start to become toxic. .005 is pretty signficant to be off and risk hundreds of dollars of livestock.

Maybe the lesson is not that refracs are required. They are reccomended, but it may also be a reccomendation to have 2 or more sg measures to validate against.

 

[rayjay]

While your Deep Six hydrometer may be crap, it still can be used as Boomer said, by noting the reading compared to actual.
However, you mentioned that you soaked it in warm water overnight, getting all the bubbles off.
This is NOT always sufficient as calcium deposits build up inside the hydrometer and the ones on the swing arm affect the reading. You won't see this build up.
Soak it in white vinegar overnight before rinsing well and using, just to be sure.
Then you can compare it to your refractometer and note the difference.

 

[barderer]

great post boomer

 

[Asureef]

You obviously have success with the hydrometer (17 yrs), but it just seems to me alot of 'maintenance' work with keeping your hydrometer on point. It seems that using a refractrometer is much easier....once calibrated, couple drops of SW and presto, your done. a quick targeted rinse with RO/DI and ready for next use. IMO, this free's up time for more of the fun stuff :beer:

'To each his own', I guess!!

I agree, plus not to mention not having to get your hands wet. Most refractometer comes with automatic temperature correction.

 

[Tek]

Buy a refractometer

Buy a refractometer

I'm sure any measurement tool is subject to error. However, my experience is that my $45. Refrac just saved me close to $200 in livestock and I'm not exagerating, if I consider the old live stock as well as the new, probably a lot more than that.

My deep six, showed I was at 1.026. Had a grama and blenny, along with a CUC and Sally light foot.

The light foot died and I couldn't figure out why. All my parameters were perfect. SG, Ammonia, nitrates, nitrites, ph, alk, everything.

I had been pondering a refrac and decided to order. My light foot died about a week before I had new livestock coming and needed to know what was wrong fast. I got the refrac, and tested with calibration fluid and my tank twice, once before calibration and once after. The calibration was spot on out of the box. The readings were the same before and after: 1.030 - 1.031. Bordering on lethal to livestock. My guess is the high salinity killed my lightfoot.

My hydromiter still read 1.026 even after sooking in warm water over night, getting all the bubbles off, everything.

Over the course of a week I lowered the salinity slowly to 1.026 based on the refrac. I wondered why the Grama and blenny I purchased locally were in 1.019 water. I had to acclimate them to 1.030 water. Which, I am surprised they survived now.

When my new livestock came I tested their water. They were between 1.23 and 1.025.

I could acclimate very quickly because of the closeness of their water to mine. If hadn't lowered my salinity, I'm sure I would have killed something trying to acclimated them to 1.030 water.

Not to mention how much salt I was using to maintain 1.030. I use significantly less salt now!!

I'm keeping the hydrometer so I always will know if my refrac starts getting off. If it's not .005 different from my refrac readings, then I know there's something wrong.

And my hydro reads .005 LESS than my refrac. I don't know what max sg inverts and fish can tolerate, but, I've read anything above 1.030 can start to become toxic. .005 is pretty signficant to be off and risk hundreds of dollars of livestock.

Maybe the lesson is not that refracs are required. They are reccomended, but it may also be a reccomendation to have 2 or more sg measures to validate against.

I had the same issue you were having with my Deep Six hydrometer. My refractometer came in this week and after calibration I thought the thing was wrong. The hydrometer is safe around the zone marked on it at 1.20-1.21, but at 1.025 my tank was at 1.029-1.30 according to the refractometer. I started to lower the SG and so far everything in the tank is starting to look better.

 

[Billybeau1]

Most tanks will look equally good at 1.030 as well as 1.026. I doubt your tank looking better has anything to do with salinity.

My 2 cent. I do not know why any serious reefkeeper would not want to use anything but a refractometer. Price and accuracy.

Sorry rayjay...... I aint buyin'.

 

[rayjay]

My intent hasn't been to convince people to use the SeaTest swing Arm hydrometer, (Deep Six, forget about it) but rather to show people that the SeaTest CAN be used successfully with no problems, and that the refractometer can be errant at times without one knowing, based on calibration methods, varying brand of calibration fluids, and indeed, even construction of the unit itself, where some need frequent calibration while others seldom need it.
Your refractometer will NEVER be more accurate than my certified calibrated hydrometer, and I don't have to check calibration of it.

 

[travis32]

Billy, There's got to be a max tolerance of salinity. I've read around 1.031 may be where things start to go south. However, my corals and fish were doing o.k. at between 1.030 and 1.031. However, I had die off starting to occur. I happened to lose my sally light foot (thank good ness he died before he started eating fish). It's the only culprit I can find is the high salinity.

The second issue is just simply time for acclimation. Most acclimating guides I've read say to get within +/- .001 before introducing the livestock. Most Fish stores use a lower salinity ranging between 1.021 and 1.026. Acclimating a fish from 1.023 to 1.030 can be very stressful and time consuming IMO. Whereas, if the tank is at 1.026, and the fish purchased are around 1.023. Well, much shorter time frame, and more likelihood of successful acclimation.

The last point I have has nothing to do with quality of livestock, but just pure economics. salt costs $$. Keeping a tank at 1.030 is going to take a lot more salt than at say 1.026. That alone could equal the cost of a refrac within 3 or 4 months of water changes (or less depending on tank size and WC size).


Either way, Tek, I'm glad you were able to get the refrac and check things out! test the calibration once every month or two (or if you drop it or it gets knocked around some) and you should be good!

 

[Tek]

Most tanks will look equally good at 1.030 as well as 1.026. I doubt your tank looking better has anything to do with salinity.

My 2 cent. I do not know why any serious reefkeeper would not want to use anything but a refractometer. Price and accuracy.

Sorry rayjay...... I aint buyin'.

Actually at 1.030 alot of corals were not opening the way they should and I had some acros RTN.

 

[Tek]

Either way, Tek, I'm glad you were able to get the refrac and check things out! test the calibration once every month or two (or if you drop it or it gets knocked around some) and you should be good!

I actually turned my AC up to drop the temp to 68 for the calibration based on the instructions, but I read it is not needed. It is so much easier to test SG with a refractometer that I will not be going back to a hydrometer.

 

[cody6766]

I'm another hydrometer user. I have one of the cheap ones (probably a deep 6) but I had it checked against an accurate refractometer. It's off, but I know how much. 1.022 is actually 1.025. I've been using it since I got into the hobby with no salinity issues.

 

[Boomer]

1.030 = 40 ppt and should only be used on dedicated Red Sea tanks. World ocean reefs vary between 33 and 37 ppt.

I like hydro's also but there is less "user" error in refracts and especially a good refract. There is already one hand-held refract out there for seawater from Atago ~ $300 and another one on the way from Deltec.

 

[Allmost]

I'm another hydrometer user. I have one of the cheap ones (probably a deep 6) but I had it checked against an accurate refractometer. It's off, but I know how much. 1.022 is actually 1.025. I've been using it since I got into the hobby with no salinity issues.

but thats temperature dependent, meaning at 80F 1.022 is 1.025, at 50F degrees it may not be

that's why I like refr.s it shows u salinity based on the temp

so u can mix SW and measure and then heat it ... .

 

[Floowid]

I have been using the cheap deep six for years. I know how far its off and can easily correct for it. It has been steady year in and year out.

Edit to say:
I know a refractometer would probably be better, but why spend the money when a $6 piece of plastic has been getting the job done nicely.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It has been steady year in and year out.

How do you know its been steady? You check it?

 

[vegaskid11]

Randy's back. :dance:

 

[Boomer]

Almost

but thats temperature dependent, meaning at 80F 1.022 is 1.025, at 50F degrees it may not be

Some "swing-arms", at least the IO, are self-temp compensated for like a refract by using thermal expansion plastic. However, so is the Deep-Six but from playing with them it the worst swing-arm out there. I have an old IO SeaTest that is till right on but is cleaned properly and when I used it was tested against a $600 condo-meter.


Flood

I know how far its off and can easily correct for it.

So, just how far off is it ?




Randy

Itt is about time you got back :lol:

 

[Floowid]

I check it vs the lfs water every time I buy some there, which works out to be every 6 months or so (when I am too unmotivated to mix my own). It has never wavered. it reads .003 low. When it says 1.022 I know it is 1.025. The last time I got home with some water and it read 1.018, and I figured it was finally the demise of my trusty Deep 6. But I decided to take a sample back down to the lfs before I used because of the descrepency. I was right in doing so. They had mixed it a little weak.

I'm not saying refractometers aren't the way to go, just that I have managed to make my swing arm work for a long enough time period that it has demonstrated its dependability to me. YMMV.

 

[Tek]

Decent refractometers are 39.99 at most places and 29.99 shipped on Ebay. Losing 2 Acros at 50.00 each is not worth the money I saved chancing it with a bad Hydrometer.