Refugium and Sump Size vs skimmer size

[Arc Drafter]

Hello everyone,

I am working on a plan for a build and I have been tossing around a few thoughts. I'll add drawings to this post later but I wanted to throw a few questions out there.

The tank I am getting from my friend is about 5'x2'x2' I think. I have never actually measured it I don't think that is really important but lets say it is about 150 gallons. I am wanting to take 2x40 gallon breaders one will about a 1' above the other. In the top one I am going to plant 30 mangrove trees and miracle mud it will have 1/2 the over flow from the Main Display tank. The mangrove 40 breeder will over flow into the other 40b w/ only chaeto in it. The other half of the overflow will go into a 100g rubbermaid stock tank and that is where i'll have my skimmer, media reactors, heaters etc.

Now the questions.

1) since I am going to have such a large fuge will i need a skimmer rated for
the same gallons or can i go a bit smaller since the fuge will take a lot of
the nutrients out of the water.
2) Will i still need to replace the miracle mud every year since i'll have
mangroves planted in it?
2b) Do I actually put the roots of the mangroves in the miracle mud?

 

[Arc Drafter]

Here is the plan mangroves are spaced 3" apart

 

[Arc Drafter]

Here is the pdf of the drawing hopefully this is better.

 

[Arc Drafter]

Anyone have any thoughts.

 

[Timber77]

What skimmer are you thinking would be my question?
the mangroves will slowly grow and filter, but your gonna have other issues from having so much surface area for detritus to collect. I would say if anything us a bigger skimmer with longer dwell time like a 8 inch 6 footer for this size setup.

 

[Arc Drafter]

I don't know. I was hoping to get away with a less expensive one since my refugium will be close to 50% of the volume. Are you saying the fuge won't pull nutrients?

 

[rlpardue]

I would always recommend spending a sizeable portion of your budget on an appropriately-sized skimmer. It is a piece of equipment that you definitely do not want to buy twice.

In general, a skimmer is rated for a typically-stocked tank of X size. Manufacturers boost the rating a bit. If you have ~250g of water volume (after accounting for empty space in the 100g rubbermaid sump), but only ~145g of space inhabited by pooping things, I suppose you'd probably want something rated around 220g by manufacturers. It is possible to buy a skimmer that is too big, although that's outside the scope of this discussion.

In my experience, mangroves are actually happier without a substrate. Mine are in a barebottom fuge and have lived 9 months and grown a great deal. The roots extend through the water and suck up the nutrients they need. I think the problem most people have is that, while mangroves do fine in sand, they don't do well when they are removed from the sandbed and replanted. This kills the root structure. So if you're going to be replacing the refugium substrate periodically (which is a fine idea), you may want to "suspend" the mangroves in the refugium rather than use a sand or mud substrate to keep them where they are. Also, you do not *need* mud to grow mangroves. Like I said, just keeping them suspended in the water columnn is fine with them.

 

[Arc Drafter]

Thanks for the reply i'll see what i need to do. I was thinking about getting one rated for 350g. will i need to account for the 60 or so gallons from my fuge?

 

[Vinny Kreyling]

All water counts toward total volume.

 

[rlpardue]

That just depends on how much crap your 60g fuge is generating.

~350g will be fine.

 

[Arc Drafter]

Thanks for the input everyone

 

[d2mini]

Your skimmer should be based on the size of your DISPLAY TANK, not your total water volume. I learned this the hard way. The reason is that all your waste is coming from the DT and your sump is not contributing. If you have fish and stuff in your fuge, you can add that. Just remember, if your skimmer is too big it will not skim.

 

[Arc Drafter]

Your skimmer should be based on the size of your DISPLAY TANK, not your total water volume. I learned this the hard way. The reason is that all your waste is coming from the DT and your sump is not contributing. If you have fish and stuff in your fuge, you can add that. Just remember, if your skimmer is too big it will not skim.

This was my logic thanks for verifying

 

[Timber77]

his logic is wrong... if you think no additional growth and waste will come from adding 30 mangroves your crazy.

 

[SavingOurSeas]

Timber, will you please elaborate a little more on your comment?
What exactly are you saying?

 

[jda]

I can assure you that big skimmers will skim even a 10G tank. I have a 1200G rated skimmer on my 120 and it pulls out all kind of junk.

I don't know how your endeavor will turn out, but many people's best laid plans to have mangroves oft go awry - I think that Steinbeck said that. ...so I might suggest a plan that can survive without the mangroves.

This is somewhat off topic, but if you drain one tank into your display, you will end up with all kind of bubbles.