Refugium for freshwater

MisterAtlantis

New member
Hi, my brother is getting a new freshwater aquarium, could he utilise the refugium principle to combat unwanted algae, would the types of good algae be different for freshwater.
Hope you guys don't mind me asking a freshwater related question here, promise not to make a habit of it:D
Andy
 
No need for a refugium in fresh water. You can add plants directly to the display tank and there are no pods in fresh water. Well there are water fleas and such in fresh water but they are not as important to the food chain as they are in salt especially if a mandarin is in there.

You must wait 3-6 months before a fresh or salt water tank will be ready for live plants!!!

If you are getting too much algae growth in fresh water stop fertilizing it and giving it light. Also if the tank is mature enough put live plants in there to compete with the algae for nutrients and starve the algae.
 
You can add live plants sooner than that in fresh water if you have proper lights & are running CO2......some would do fine with just good lighting....
 
Nah I will have to agree to diasgree. It takes time for the proper nutrients to build up in solution in the water. Just light and CO2 is not enough. Dumping fertilizers in from bottles is a shortcut that does not work nearly as well as patience.

I stand by my statement of 3-6 months and prefer closer to 6.
 
Plants definitely help in freshwater, regardless of if they're in the display tank or some other connected vessel. Many people just put them in the display, since they're beautiful and - of course - there's no corals in the display of a FW tank.

Establishment and cycling of a new FW tank can be similar to a marine tank, but given certain techniques, planted FW tanks can be handled far differently. Given a certain maintenance strategy, there's absolutely no reason to hold off on planting a FW tank, and in fact it can be beneficial to plant sooner rather than later. In a planted tank, the plants are absorbing nutrients from the water and substrate - they are effectively acting as a filtration (or, more properly, a nutrient export) mechanism. Hence, in the same way that you want to run your skimmer from day one on a marine tank, you want plants in a FW tank from day one.

I've established many planted freshwater aquariums over the years, and can confidently say that you can put plants in on day one. In fact, modern practice more or less calls for stuffing the tank with plants right from the beginning - this way, they establish themselves and outcompete pest algae for nutrients and light.

These tanks are also typically fed CO2 (to provide a carbon source), liquid or powder fertilizers (containing the three macro nutrients and proper trace elements), and strong light (strong for a FW at least - even the strongest planted tank lights are at best average compared to reef lighting rigs.) In this sort of tank, many species of plants will thrive and grow to the point that huge weekly trimmings are required.

Clearly, this is a different approach than the typical mixed-purpose tropical FW tank, and requires careful planning and knowledge to pull it off - but it is certainly an accepted and well-proven method.

Some good reading:

www.plantedtank.net
www.aquaticplantcentral.com

Here's a (crappy cell phone) photo of a planted 60g tank I had running a few years ago. At it's peak, I'd pull out a big mixing bowl full of trimmings every week:

IMG_0336_trim.jpg


Plants were in the tank mere hours after it was filled with water and brought up to temperature. It had three VHOs, CO2, and was fed a few times a week with a fert mix I made from bulk sources. There was a big canister filter on it, but honestly it was only really necessary for water movement - the plants did such a good job of pulling nutrients out of the water, there really was no other filtration or nutrient export needed.
 
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The one part of the above that I do not support is fertilizers from a bottle. I have never ever used any that I was happy with. They all had negative results usually in the form of algae production. Much better to let the tank age and be ready for plants naturally. IME if you put them in "on day one" you stand a 99% chance of them dying even if you are an experienced hobbyist with unlimited funds.

I suppose if you had the proper chemicals and a research lab at your disposal to fertilize and test the water it could be made to work. I prefer to keep it simple, as a matter of fact I would never even coinsder CO2 injection...

A good rule of thumb for the average fresh water hobbyist is, as I already said, 3-6 months before adding plants.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14868776#post14868776 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Juruense
The one part of the above that I do not support is fertilizers from a bottle. I have never ever used any that I was happy with. They all had negative results usually in the form of algae production. Much better to let the tank age and be ready for plants naturally. IME if you put them in "on day one" you stand a 99% chance of them dying even if you are an experienced hobbyist with unlimited funds.

I suppose if you had the proper chemicals and a research lab at your disposal to fertilize and test the water it could be made to work. I prefer to keep it simple, as a matter of fact I would never even coinsder CO2 injection...

A good rule of thumb for the average fresh water hobbyist is, as I already said, 3-6 months before adding plants.

Given your approach:

1) No CO2
2) No fertilizers

Then yes, wait to put plants in. If a newcomer to FW tanks wants a few plants with average growth, then yes, you're fine waiting 6 months.

But please, don't make statements ("you stand a 99% chance of them dying") about methods that are not the same as yours. The standard, modern approach to planted tanks is to use CO2, fertilizers, and high lighting levels. This is not something I made up or got lucky with in the tank pictured above, this approach is used successfully by thousands around the world, and is not in any way risky or improper. This serves exactly the opposite purpose of what you are suggesting - it keeps the plants so overwhelmingly happy that they grow like mad (instead of dying) and outcompete pest algae. If a newcomer wants a tank with excellent growth and a dense plant population (without pest algae) then they are better off adding plants AS SOON as possible. Like I said above, this is the same theory as why we try to run clean cycles in a marine tank. Ask yourself this - would you cycle a new freshwater tank without any filtration at all? Certainly not, there's no point. So, if you're following a proven method that recognizes plants are part of your filtration, then it's readily apparent that you need to put the plants in as soon as possible - otherwise, nutrients will be out of control and pest algae will take over.

Adding fertilizers alone to an otherwise typical freshwater tank will certainly end in disaster. But adding them along with good lighting and a carbon source (CO2) will cause excellent plant growth and can create a tank environment completely devoid of pest algae. If you've never found a commercial fertilizer you liked, I would blame it on your approach not being suitable for fertilizer use, not on fertilizers in general. It took me about 10 minutes to mix my fert mix from materials I ordered on an aquarium-related website, I have no research lab. The formulations for this stuff are readily available and the testing requirements are much less significant than a typical marine tank.
 
Rereading my comments I realize that they may come across as aggressive, which was not my intent - instead, I would merely hope to differentiate between different methods of keeping plants in FW tanks. Juruense, if you have seen certain results with a given method, I would hope that you would differentiate from other methods (such as the one I am presenting) and realize that these other methods may give different results, such that your observations may not apply in these cases.
 
Thanks guys, will pass the info on to my bro, sure it will help when he sets up his new tank,
Andy
ps please take a look at my aquarium plan
 
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