Refugium Grows Everything But Chaeto

[z3speed4me]

So I changed my center section into a refugium instead of just having it filled with a ton of rubble rock for filtration / surface area (with no lights). So I initially had a chaeto ball that didn't do well due to the inadequate light I selected. Bought another HUGE ball from a forum member, changed my 8hr night light to a "daylight" ~5500k LED BR30 bulb, and the chaeto was doing fine.

About 3 weeks later, it's now slowly being over run by every other type of algae form known to man; bubble, green cyano, red cyano, hair, etc. I am taking this as a good thing, bc it's GREAT that there is absolutely no algae of any kind in my display, but my refugium is starting to look like the swamp thing had babies.

I have seen so many others just look so clean with a green ball floating in there and that's it (both of mine also like to sink). Whole reason I wanted the chaeto was to harvest pods for my leopard wrasse and future plans for a mandarin. I still see the big isopod ones crawling around, but not sure if any of the small copepods are still reproducing in there, as the numbers on the DT glass are not as high as they used to be.

So A) Leave it and let the nasty stuff grow and just do it's thing?
B) Actively remove some stuff like I have started, and try another chaeto ball?
C) Completely clean it out and try chaeto one more time?
D) Wait until I finally setup my trigger sump in a few weekends from now, which should have improved flow dynamics through the chambers, and see what happens?

This is more a question of "what's the best course of action", not "I think I'm doing something wrong and my tank is broken" so tank parameters don't really apply but I'll list them because someone always wants them for whatever reason...

75 gal display
~22 gal sump
Running brs gfo/carbon changed every ~2 weeks
temp 77.2-78.2
SG 1.026

As of yesterday
All salifert tests:
PH 8.1ish daytime
KH 8.6
CA 430
MG 1420
NO3 borderline undetectable
PO4 borderline undetectable

 

[LJLKRL]

I bought this light from Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01FGTNUVU/

I put a little ball of chaeto from a bag of pods, about the size of a nickel or quarter in my refugium and run this light from 10:30 pm to 5 am nightly.
In 6 months I now have a volleyball size ball of chaeto and need to trim it.

I don't know how fast it grows for others, but this is the first time I have been able to grow any. This is a great light.

 

[aquamann183]

So I changed my center section into a refugium instead of just having it filled with a ton of rubble rock for filtration / surface area (with no lights). So I initially had a chaeto ball that didn't do well due to the inadequate light I selected. Bought another HUGE ball from a forum member, changed my 8hr night light to a "daylight" ~5500k LED BR30 bulb, and the chaeto was doing fine.

About 3 weeks later, it's now slowly being over run by every other type of algae form known to man; bubble, green cyano, red cyano, hair, etc. I am taking this as a good thing, bc it's GREAT that there is absolutely no algae of any kind in my display, but my refugium is starting to look like the swamp thing had babies.

I have seen so many others just look so clean with a green ball floating in there and that's it (both of mine also like to sink). Whole reason I wanted the chaeto was to harvest pods for my leopard wrasse and future plans for a mandarin. I still see the big isopod ones crawling around, but not sure if any of the small copepods are still reproducing in there, as the numbers on the DT glass are not as high as they used to be.

So A) Leave it and let the nasty stuff grow and just do it's thing?
B) Actively remove some stuff like I have started, and try another chaeto ball?
C) Completely clean it out and try chaeto one more time?
D) Wait until I finally setup my trigger sump in a few weekends from now, which should have improved flow dynamics through the chambers, and see what happens?

This is more a question of "what's the best course of action", not "I think I'm doing something wrong and my tank is broken" so tank parameters don't really apply but I'll list them because someone always wants them for whatever reason...

75 gal display
~22 gal sump
Running brs gfo/carbon changed every ~2 weeks
temp 77.2-78.2
SG 1.026

As of yesterday
All salifert tests:
PH 8.1ish daytime
KH 8.6
CA 430
MG 1420
NO3 borderline undetectable
PO4 borderline undetectable

"like the swamp thing had babies" quote of the day.
Sorry I can't add much help, but I'm curious to see what others say. What did you think of the live rock rubble? Setting up my refugium and people say to stay away from it?

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[jandrew]

Yeah.. I tried a light similar to the one suggested above, with rubble and live mud. Tried two different species of chaeto. Both died. The only thing that grew was hair algae, and got a bit of bubble algae in the display. I had zero to borderline phosphates and nitrates too but wanted to sustain a better pod population. I had to surmise in the end they were not high enough to sustain chaeto.

 

[z3speed4me]

I always thought from what I read in the past that chaeto would be the "stronger" of the species and overrule the other algae....apparently not.

Rubble rock was starting to get some purple to it and doing what it was supposed to do and basically just be MORE surface area of live rock; it's still in there, just under the mess of things. I dont mean rubble as in like quarter sized pebbles, maybe 8-10 pieces that were baseball/fist sized.

 

[z3speed4me]

I bought this light from Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01FGTNUVU/

Going to check this light out, good ol' Amazon showing up tomorrow... that works for me!

 

[DamonG]

Try one of these.. You will have no problem growing cheato or any macro art a very accelerated pace, pulling nutrient and also outpacing most of the other annoying algae(you really need some power to pull nutrient effectively and not just slowly grow), and your pod population explodes....

VIPARSPECTRA Reflector-Series 300W LED Grow Light Full Spectrum for Indoor Plants Veg and Flower https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01B4GQ6MO/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_ZAXVybGA2JR12

I used this unit previously, and use the 600 watt multi channel version now.. Below is 3 weeks of growth harvesting ..I took out half of my 40 gallon tub.. But they work extremely well..

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[lousybreed]

Try one of these.. You will have no problem growing cheato or any macro art a very accelerated pace, pulling nutrient and also outpacing most of the other annoying algae(you really need some power to pull nutrient effectively and not just slowly grow), and your pod population explodes....

VIPARSPECTRA Reflector-Series 300W LED Grow Light Full Spectrum for Indoor Plants Veg and Flower https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01B4GQ6MO/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_ZAXVybGA2JR12

I used this unit previously, and use the 600 watt multi channel version now.. Below is 3 weeks of growth harvesting ..I took out half of my 40 gallon tub.. But they work extremely well..

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Hey bud, I see we cross paths again. Quick question, do yo tumble your chaeto or just let a mass of it grow? My tumbler is causing me fits. Seems like I am tweaking it all the time. Maybe take a pic of your chaeto tank?

 

[2wheelsonly]

Not trying to be a wise guy or anything but are you actually wanting to grow chaeto? Like if it's not growing maybe it doesn't have the nutrients to grow which is the whole purpose to begin with? I never understood this obsession with growing green junk in the sump. Some people actually put it on display and it's such an eye sore but that's a discussion for a different thread.

 

[DamonG]

Hey bud, I see we cross paths again. Quick question, do yo tumble your chaeto or just let a mass of it grow? My tumbler is causing me fits. Seems like I am tweaking it all the time. Maybe take a pic of your chaeto tank?

Hey dude! Honestly, and I laugh when I see people so worried about tumbling cheato.. No, mine doesn't tumble at all.. I never have worried about that honestly because I learned fast, when your dealing with high powered lighting, it penetrates through.. And I would say, about 95 to 98% of all of the systems I have seen in person, that have higher powered lights (from the kessils and small hps to what I have), sooner or later, they find that is both difficult and by accident many times that they are giving themselves unnecessary headache trying to keep it tumbling.. It's just not needed honestly unless you have "what I call" weak light on it.. I believe in, and actually enjoy "growing" and not just barely keeping things alive in my system.. So I'm aggressive, and get aggressive results..

I let the mass grow, and just pull it like I did in that picture.. I made some changes though, so now, my tub, I only have a section (I would say about the area for a gallon of cheato), and I'm going to try some red dragon also.. On top of my babies (mollies) and their parents.. I have done this cheato thing long enough to know not to worry about it..

So to answer your question simply without all the detail above I would say "heck no dude.. Get some high powered light that's going to make it grow, let it do its own thing, harvest, and stop driving yourself nuts about that crazy tumble stuff".. Lol..

And for pictures, click on my name, and take a look at some of the threads I have responded to.. I pretty much always have the same results, and post pictures.. Unfortunately, thanks to Samsung (ugh), I don't have my note 7 anymore ,therefore ,when i had to reset my note 5 last week(for the first time) ,i had to move all my media to my desktop, and it irks me to honestly, sit down and transfer all of that back to the phone, only to, in a couple months, so the same when the note 8 comes out ..Because this no sd card stuff is for the birds..

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[DamonG]

Not trying to be a wise guy or anything but are you actually wanting to grow chaeto? Like if it's not growing maybe it doesn't have the nutrients to grow which is the whole purpose to begin with? I never understood this obsession with growing green junk in the sump. Some people actually put it on display and it's such an eye sore but that's a discussion for a different thread.

Lol, it depends on what a person likes to grow and the reason.. I do sps, and love sps.. So my reason to grow "junk" as you call it is multi level.. And yes, it's very effective with pulling down to zero nutrients if you do it right.. But you have to do it right! My obsession honestly, is that one, you can make a little change from cheato and other algea production, to not only lessen the blow of maintence(hence, if you can grow it fast, you make more) costs, it also is an excellent place for bugs, worms, baby stars and much more to literally proliferate, and of course an excellent nutrient export because when you have a larger amount of it, it pulls a larger amount to grow and live.. While at the same time, taking up co2 out of the system.. My pH of the system is actually at its highest at night when the cheato and scrubber lights are on, because of that photosynthesis.. And.. Most important to me as a side effect, no algea grows in the display! None! Because your overpowering your actual display with the fuge..

So it works well (almost too well in some instances).. And it's only an eye sore if it's not maintained "and" you have no life in it.. There are many animals that live in the zone that may not be "so pretty" to some.. But.. If you can find and make it interesting, just like anything else about a system, it begins to not only "not" be an eyesore, but a basis of a food chain and habitat for many animals that are beneficial to the mini ecosystem.. Lol, even my trigger goes after the big amphipods that are in my system(the display) , along with my scooter blenny and other animals that are in the tub, and "fireball" the crab that is in my sump with the scrubber, liverock and my eel.

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[MiddletoM]

I had chaeto in my sump for a year, nitrates were always undetectable but the display was riddled with GHA and a bit of bryopsis. The fuge was a mess too, full of gha and slime and the chaeto never seemed to grow. maybe a tennis ball amount every two/three months.

Recently I got fed up with it and having a dirty looking sump so I removed the chaeto and cleaned the fuge out. Nitrates have risen to 1ppm and are stable and ALL algae in the display has disappeared. No idea why, cant complain. been stable like this for a month now.

I have a good amount of LR in the display and a block of marinepure in very low flow so I guess the system has found a balance.

 

[lousybreed]

Hey dude! Honestly, and I laugh when I see people so worried about tumbling cheato.. No, mine doesn't tumble at all.. I never have worried about that honestly because I learned fast, when your dealing with high powered lighting, it penetrates through.. And I would say, about 95 to 98% of all of the systems I have seen in person, that have higher powered lights (from the kessils and small hps to what I have), sooner or later, they find that is both difficult and by accident many times that they are giving themselves unnecessary headache trying to keep it tumbling.. It's just not needed honestly unless you have "what I call" weak light on it.. I believe in, and actually enjoy "growing" and not just barely keeping things alive in my system.. So I'm aggressive, and get aggressive results..

I let the mass grow, and just pull it like I did in that picture.. I made some changes though, so now, my tub, I only have a section (I would say about the area for a gallon of cheato), and I'm going to try some red dragon also.. On top of my babies (mollies) and their parents.. I have done this cheato thing long enough to know not to worry about it..

So to answer your question simply without all the detail above I would say "heck no dude.. Get some high powered light that's going to make it grow, let it do its own thing, harvest, and stop driving yourself nuts about that crazy tumble stuff".. Lol..

And for pictures, click on my name, and take a look at some of the threads I have responded to.. I pretty much always have the same results, and post pictures.. Unfortunately, thanks to Samsung (ugh), I don't have my note 7 anymore ,therefore ,when i had to reset my note 5 last week(for the first time) ,i had to move all my media to my desktop, and it irks me to honestly, sit down and transfer all of that back to the phone, only to, in a couple months, so the same when the note 8 comes out ..Because this no sd card stuff is for the birds..

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That's a good idea on checking your posts out first. Duh!! Thanks again for the input. I am going to give up on tumbling. It makes my pods dizzy, and makes me dizzy. My chaeto is growing like a beast, I will just pull it apart and spread it out across my chaeto area which is just a touch over 1 sqft. I am going to try to harvest once a week. I am getting hair algae mixed in with the chaeto, do you get this too??

 

[nelson6500]

I bought this light from Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01FGTNUVU/

I put a little ball of chaeto from a bag of pods, about the size of a nickel or quarter in my refugium and run this light from 10:30 pm to 5 am nightly.
In 6 months I now have a volleyball size ball of chaeto and need to trim it.

I don't know how fast it grows for others, but this is the first time I have been able to grow any. This is a great light.

I have the same light and my chaeto needs to be trimmed every month.

 

[mattgumaer]

I have a cheap Home Depot light. For a long time, my chaeto basically survived. I started supplementing iron, now my chaeto grows much, much faster.

Matt

 

[wildman926]

Not trying to be a wise guy or anything but are you actually wanting to grow chaeto? Like if it's not growing maybe it doesn't have the nutrients to grow which is the whole purpose to begin with? I never understood this obsession with growing green junk in the sump. Some people actually put it on display and it's such an eye sore but that's a discussion for a different thread.

Amen brother. If people would take that extra time and focus and use it for growing things in their display tank, they may be more successful. Who cares what is in a sump or refugium? Let it do it's thing by keeping unwanted algae out of the display tank, and by not disturbing it, it will house and grow things on its own.

 

[roli112]

I have a low flow separate fuge and my chaeto thrives and never tumbles, I give it a few turns whenever I harvest it but that's it, I do have good strong lighting though.

 

[roli112]

Not trying to be a wise guy or anything but are you actually wanting to grow chaeto? Like if it's not growing maybe it doesn't have the nutrients to grow which is the whole purpose to begin with? I never understood this obsession with growing green junk in the sump. Some people actually put it on display and it's such an eye sore but that's a discussion for a different thread.

He said he wants to populate pods, nothing wrong with that.

 

[z3speed4me]

Amen brother. If people would take that extra time and focus and use it for growing things in their display tank, they may be more successful. Who cares what is in a sump or refugium? Let it do it's thing by keeping unwanted algae out of the display tank, and by not disturbing it, it will house and grow things on its own.

Well that was kinda my original point / question. Should I even bother with the chaeto, or just let my sump be as it is, since the display tank and all coral / fish in it are doing quite well.

I really just wanted the big green ball to to foster my pod population as I initially stated, but if all the other algea forms in there will essentially do the same thing, they I am not necessarily "wanting" chaeto, just thought it was the preferred option for pods to live.

 

[jandrew]

Well that was kinda my original point / question. Should I even bother with the chaeto, or just let my sump be as it is, since the display tank and all coral / fish in it are doing quite well.

I really just wanted the big green ball to to foster my pod population as I initially stated, but if all the other algea forms in there will essentially do the same thing, they I am not necessarily "wanting" chaeto, just thought it was the preferred option for pods to live.

Double Amen Brother. I have the exact same issue.

I mean seriously fellas, I read tons of threads on chaeto-- and you get so many answering how to get it to grow with spending more money on special lighting- when you know the light you are using is proven to grow it, or they suggest getting it to grow by adding more supplements etc.. and then you tell all the stories of how you now have chaeto coming out the kazoo.. But all that stuff gets everything else growing as well it seems..and the chaeto may still not grow-- making a bad situation worse-- so in essence the underlying question is never really answered: At what point is your water chemistry such that chaeto is not worth having and better to work on the pods, algae issues some other way?? (n.b.. as a side note I read you could use rock in your fuge to house the pods instead of chaeto)

Now if some of you had zero nitrates and zero phosphates before you added chaeto, and are doing well with it, even just sustaining it with modest growth, then there is mystery there that is not yet solved. I do not buy the lighting thing, but perhaps somewhere you have something in your chemistry that is making it work.