Refugium tips (formerly "flow rate thorugh a refugium")

[Anthony Calfo]

I'm not a big fan of substrates in the sump proper for critter production. I much rather prefer a suspended matrix like the Chaeto ball or spaced polyester filter pads (on a string to act as a pod condo).

Fine (<1 mm) sand for a DSB for NNR (see DSB bucket thread stickied atop this forum) is good. But beyond that... I am not a fan of placing rubble, live rock or coarse sand in the sump. In most cases, it accumulates/traps more solids than its worth (for pods).

 

[barryhc]

I'm not a big fan of substrates in the sump proper for critter production. I much rather prefer a suspended matrix like the Chaeto ball or spaced polyester filter pads (on a string to act as a pod condo).

Fine (<1 mm) sand for a DSB for NNR (see DSB bucket thread stickied atop this forum) is good. But beyond that... I am not a fan of placing rubble, live rock or coarse sand in the sump. In most cases, it accumulates/traps more solids than its worth (for pods).

Ok, so would a 1 1/2" to 2" depth of <1mm, be adequate, and is there a "micron equivalent" or "otherwise" description of the filter pads that would work well. I am guessing that a fairly coarse pad would work well, and maybe 1/2' to 1" thick?

Also, to sort of "finish" here, a reccomendation for what are good critters for "feeding" would be exceedingly helpful here. I would like to support sand bed types of animals, such as jaw-fish, gobies, mandarin, gobies, etc. primarily. I think I can feed other types of fish adequately, in most cases, without growing their food.

Thanks again Anthony, I'm "almost on my way". > barryhc

 

[Bemmer]

Anthony,
Along the same lines as Barryhc as it relates to live food/pods, I have been told that it is best to return the water from the refugium directly back into the main tank, if possible. That is to avoid having the pods go through the return pumps running from the sump. But if that is not possible, as in my case, where the refugium return is gravity feed back to the sump, will I loss alot of pods because of the impellers on the pumps or is that a myth?

 

[barryhc]

Anthony,
Along the same lines as Barryhc as it relates to live food/pods, I have been told that it is best to return the water from the refugium directly back into the main tank, if possible. That is to avoid having the pods go through the return pumps running from the sump. But if that is not possible, as in my case, where the refugium return is gravity feed back to the sump, will I loss alot of pods because of the impellers on the pumps or is that a myth?

I can answer this one Bemmer, it is primarily a myth. A needle wheel type of pump MIGHT cause a bit more trouble, if at all, but it is unnecessary to have this type of pump in your return.

Check with Anthony on this one, but I think, that a skimmer in the return path would be a bigger disadvantage, and I don't know of anyone promoting this.

Happy reef keeping, > barryhc

 

[Anthony Calfo]

the issue of impeller shear (on plankton) is a bunk myth. Really... of very little matter or consequence. The studies on it were bunk (used Artemia!) and the practical reality is quite different: most plankton passes through just fine... and what doesn't is just as edible on the other side

Do not worry about impeller shear on pods.

 

[Bemmer]

Thanks guys, I can sleep better tonight knowing that my pods will be alright "on the other side". Wink right back at ya'

Another one...I am thinking of putting my calcium reactor (made by MyReefCreation) in the sump since I have the room. Andy, at MyReef said that it would be good to drip the calcium from the calcium reactor into the refugium tank (separate from the sump). Is there a real advantage to this? Enough to consider putting the calcium reactor on a shelf closer to the refugium tank instead of in the sump.

I can do either since I am still in the setup stage.

Thanks

 

[Anthony Calfo]

No harm... some help perhaps. At least in the sense that you do not want to drip your effluent from the Ca reactor into any high aeration/flow areas. Refugiums traditionally are not as dynamic as sumps or displays... so this may well be a fine place to drip.

Andy at MRC is a wise chap too... good advice.

 

[Bemmer]

Anthony,
So, I should strongly consider putting the calcium reactor closer to the refugium tank, which is sitting 37"h on a stand and is 6 1/2 feet from the sump. I have it up high for the obvious gravity feed back to the sump. Can I mount the MRC cal. reactor on the wall up close to the refugium? Will there be any issues with plumbing it into the main pump (Sequence Hammerhead), which will be much lower to the ground? Or is it best for the reactor to be sitting on the ground next to the sump?

 

[Bemmer]

Refugium return

Refugium return

Anthony,
A second question for you...
As you may have read in my last post on this thread, I have a seperate refugium tank (36 x 24 x 13H), which will have the DSB and live rock. The way I am designing my sump, I will have a center section between the sump area and the return that will not have anything in it. (That is assuming that I may have the calcium reactor up near the refugium tank to drip the calcium into the tank). With the open section in the sump, can I put a big ball of Cheato in the sump and then run the refugium return pipe into that same open section instead of into the skimmer section?

 

[Anthony Calfo]

sure... any place that you can conveniently add Chaeto is likely fine. It presents little challenge(s) and requires few things to get by. A neutral to positive yield here.

 

[Bemmer]

Thanks Anthony.

Any thoughts on the earlier post (just one prior to the last Bemmer post) about where the calcium reactor should be placed for the calcium drip to offer the best benefit. Sump or Refugium? Both are seperate tanks.

 

[Anthony Calfo]

not sure it makes much difference... other than avoiding either with significant bubbles/aeration if present.

 

[Bemmer]

Okay, so I can put the cheato in the center section of the sump and also have the DSB, LR and perhaps Mangroves in seperate refugium tank. From what I read in this thread, I will have difficulty getting the cheato ball rolling in the center of the sump because the overflow from the skimmer area will be coming off a baffle. Will that still be the case if I can glue on the 3" lip on the top portion of the baffle just below the water level? BTW, this refugium area in the sump is only 8"L x 30D" x 12H (water level in sump). Is that size refugium big enough to make any difference, if it just has the cheato in it?

 

[Bemmer]

Anthony,
I have decided NOT to have a center chamber in the sump, since I have the large refugium tank. So, I am going to put the cheato in the refugium with the DSB, LR and the mangroves. I want to add the lip at the short end of the tank just below my water level. But wanted to know if I should have the lip run the width (front to back) of my tank. Thanks.

 

[Anthony Calfo]

The mangroves are likely going to jam up the rolling flow pattern for the Chaeto. And... unless this refugium is enormous, the mangrives will grow out of the tank sooner rather than later (1-3 years if you are faithful about the crucial daily misting of the leaves with fresh DI/RO water daily).

Without mangroves... I would put the lip on a short end wall (full length of that side) just under the surface where the incoming water drops as described earlier in this thread.

 

[Bemmer]

Thanks Anthony.

okay, no mangroves then.

 

[duvivier]

Hey Anthony,

First, I would like to say that I've read quite a few books about Coral Reefs and marine biology and Reef Invertebrates and the Book of Coral Propagation are a few of the best ones among them directed to aquariums and marineculture, extremely forward and casual but still largely comprehensive. My sincere congratulations!

Know, since we are on a fuge discussion, I am designing my next fuge and my current project is a 80 cm side cubic fuge where I intend to keep on a side a few rocks and on the other side some mangroves, the fuge would have a tidal system, exposing part of the rocks and helping estimulate the aerial roots on mangroves
I would also have 3 types of substrate side by side, separated by some sort of eggcrate, a mud like one, aragonite sugar size and Halimeda, to encourage a larger diversity of organisms.
Since I live in Brazil I haven't seen any Chaeto avaiable on the market or any other species of "free floating" and intense light algaes. (Except for a few red algae especies that I can collect, gracialaria species from what I have seen)
Therefore I thought of having some hairy algaes and seagrass grow to create a prolific place for zooplankton and epiphytic organisms.

Any sugestions?

Thanks!

Raphael

 

[Spuds725]

Can't believe I never stumbled on this thread (was linked here)...

I just read through this entire thread and I think I got a handle on how I want to do my fuge but my question is more on overall sump fuge exchange with the tank...

I have a 135 gallon tank (recently set up-- upgraded from a 72)-- I bought the tank used, along with it a pretty big homemade Euroreef knockoff skimmer-- it is a dual (sedra 3500 needlewheel) pump recirculating skimmer... I just hooked this thing up and have been tweeking the flow through it trying to get it to produce skimmate-- so far it seems to only produce skimmate if I maintain fairly low flow through the skimmer (under 100 GPH)-- its possible I don't have enough DOCs in my water for it to remove at this time-- I've only had my live stock in it a few weeks and it will produce more skimmate later at higher skimmer flows after I get more "stuff" in the water....

Right now I am running a rio 1400 on a single section sump (about 40 gallon currently holding about 20 gallons) as my return pump which gives me about 200 GPH at the 6 feet I'm pumping it up (I built a high stand for this tank)-- and diverting less then 1/2 my flow to the skimmer (under 100 GPH right now)

Now my question---

I plan on adding a 29 or 40 gallon glass tank for use as a refugium-- I plan on a DSB, with a live rock rubble pile at one end and will grow chaeto in it....

How much exchange of tank water do I need with my fuge??

I understand the flow requirements of the fuge and can supplement this with a pump/spraybar or powerheads in it (to get the chaeto tumbling) but wonder how much flow do I need to exchange with the main sump and tank-- will a low flow/exchange suffice (100 GPH or so or even less)-- or is this too low....

Secondary to this--- if low flow is ok....

1. Should I run 100% of my flow from my tank through my skimmer (this is a recirculating skimmer all the flow would in the top of the skimmer-- it does not draw water from the sump) and then tee off the return to feed the fuge (this would lower my sump/tank exchange to less then my 1x my tank volume per hour)

or

2. Tee off the water coming from my tank to the sump and run the water that doesn't go to my skimmer to my fuge??? Using my current pump would give me 200 GPH exchange between my tank and sump-- with about 1/2 going each to my skimmer and fuge.....

I know either way I'd be running either a low flow or very low flow sump/fuge-- just curious what the opinions on a setup like this would be.....


If you think neither give me adequate tank exchange what amount exchange with the tank would you recommend through the fuge?? I can size the pump I need based on this recommendation....I've been considering replacing my Rio anyway based on some horror stories of them frying and nuking tanks....

I would appreciate any comments...

thanks....

Spuds (aka Bill)

 

[tonyf]

No harm... some help perhaps. At least in the sense that you do not want to drip your effluent from the Ca reactor into any high aeration/flow areas. Refugiums traditionally are not as dynamic as sumps or displays... so this may well be a fine place to drip.

Anthony, are you saying that we shouln't be directing the ca reactor effluent directly into the skimmer?
:eek2:

Thanks, Tone

PS since following your mantra, my reef tank has blossomed!

 

[Glimmerman911]

Anthony, I am setting up a single refugium tank, but want to split it up into two zones. One zone will be a sand bed and live rock, the other zone will be a chaeto ball if I can find some to buy. My fuge is a rubber tub, 52"X28"X24", my main tank is 180 gallon, and my sump is 50 gallon.

Is this dual zone a good idea, and how would you set it up? Which would be the first zone, and which the second? How big for each, how much flow.

Thanks!