Refugium without DSB

[JingoFresh]

At the moment I have rubble, 2 small pieces of LR and a ball of cheato in one of my sump chambers.

I would like to add more life to make this a refugium. I assume I have pods in there but never see any.

I was concerned about adding snails with just rubble on the bottom and no sand, but does this matter? If it does, what is better to put in a refugium?

 

[Ricks@reef]

Not that I don't want to help out but a quick use of the search button brings up 494 forum entries about every conceivable question regarding refugiums. Happy reading.

 

[davocean]

No need for sand or dsb in fuge w/ chaeto, rubble is fine, and you most likely have pods, just don't see them.

 

[JingoFresh]

Not that I don't want to help out but a quick use of the search button brings up 494 forum entries about every conceivable question regarding refugiums. Happy reading.

Not really, most doesn't apply to my specific question and I'm not about to dig through threads because they might have relevant info. Not to say I didn't search, but I didn't find what I needed and given the high traffic on this forum it makes more sense to just ask. Cheers.

No need for sand or dsb in fuge w/ chaeto, rubble is fine, and you most likely have pods, just don't see them.

Thanks

I was concerned the rubble might be too sharp for snails or whatever, but I guess it's fine. I have a filter sock that I think traps most pods so going to get rid of that, at least for a while to grow a population in the fuge.

 

[davocean]

I don't keep snails in mine, but they would be fine on rocks or they will go to glass.
A filter sock on drain should not keep pods from being pumped through your return and into display.

 

[JingoFresh]

I don't keep snails in mine, but they would be fine on rocks or they will go to glass.
A filter sock on drain should not keep pods from being pumped through your return and into display.

OK, Thanks. It seemed cruel somehow to only allow snails on glass, but I guess it doesn't matter.

I think all my pods were introduced into my main tank, so the sock was preventing them from starting a population in the fuge.

 

[Sk8r]

Depends on the size, too---a fuge under 10 gallons just really has not that much room for a dsb.

 

[davocean]

OK, Thanks. It seemed cruel somehow to only allow snails on glass, but I guess it doesn't matter.

I think all my pods were introduced into my main tank, so the sock was preventing them from starting a population in the fuge.

Depends on the snail type, some will prefer glass actually.
If you have chaeto in fuge, you most likely have plenty of pods breeding in there.

 

[pledosophy]

Depends if you have a protein skimmer.

There is some evidence (Julian Sprung and Jake Adams recently spoke about this at MACNA) that having a sandbed in your refugium is actually not a good thing if it is lit, like we typically do with chaeto on top. The sandbed actually decreases the production of your skimmer. Sandbeds do have the habit of becoming a sink, where without it you, that would get skimmed out.

Shimek wrote quite a bit on DSB and from his findings unless you are going much larger then you are speaking of a DSB has no real value to your aquarium.

If you want to follow the science it seems that sandbeds in the refugiums are a no go.

JMO

 

[killinit123]

Depends if you have a protein skimmer.

There is some evidence (Julian Sprung and Jake Adams recently spoke about this at MACNA) that having a sandbed in your refugium is actually not a good thing if it is lit, like we typically do with chaeto on top. The sandbed actually decreases the production of your skimmer. Sandbeds do have the habit of becoming a sink, where without it you, that would get skimmed out.

Shimek wrote quite a bit on DSB and from his findings unless you are going much larger then you are speaking of a DSB has no real value to your aquarium.

If you want to follow the science it seems that sandbeds in the refugiums are a no go.

JMO

im not quite sure I understand the argument your stating here?? are you saying that a sand bed in the fuge traps nutrients that otherwise would be skimmed out by the skimmer? If so this depends on multiple things, where your skimmer is located in the sump ie. before the fuge or after. this also depends on what you have in your fuge and how established it is. for instance i have a sand bed in my fuge and my skimmer does a good job of nutrient export but it obviously does not take care of everything. most of the nutrients that get through the skimmer section are caught in my fuge and if i did not have a sand bed then i dont think i would have half as many of the critters to take care of those said nutrients that get through. please expand on your argument so i can try and make more sense of this.

 

[Crooked Reef]

I would suggest bigger snails and make sure they are kept isolated from your return pump. Ceriths breed like mad in my tank and the offspring are small enough that they could get in the impeller shaft and jam a return pump.

 

[davocean]

Really you don't need snails in there.

 

[Crooked Reef]

You don't really need anything in there honestly.

 

[JingoFresh]

So....just pods?

 

[davocean]

So....just pods?

And something for them to eat, macro algae/chaeto, rubble is nice.

 

[cloak]

If you don't have a specialized feeder such as a mandarin, you don't really need the pods either IMO.. As a whole, there not necessarily a CUC member, they're just there. As far as a natural food source goes, if your already spot feeding your fish/corals prepared foods to begin with, you've already compromised. KISS, GL.

 

[davocean]

This is one where I just don't understand anyone that would lean against a fuge as some seem to be.
Most if not all of us go as big as we can for a sump, more water volume/increased stability.
So you have this chunk of space available usually, so easy to baffle it and get free natural protein source that a lot of fish will benefit from, not just the pod needy mandarins.
If you have anthia that require multiple feedings this is a very nice benefit.
Add to that the PH stability and it's just the easiest thing you can do to benefit from that space of water already there between your skimmer and return.
If you are looking at nutrient export, you may need more than what macro/chaeto alone, but it's pretty easy to drop a reactor into that now already divided space in addition, and the macro does help a little in going the right direction.
I think this very much falls in line w/ the KISS motto.

 

[jerseygurl]

I am not a fan of refugiums in general and frankly I think the refugium "craze" is subsiding. Unless you have a very specific need for one (i.e., pods) their benefit as a nitrate exporter is overrated. The more stuff you put in there the more cleaning and maintenance. I say blow off the fuge, keep the sump nice and clean, do your water changes and spend your time maintaining the DT not the sump.

 

[cloak]

FWIW, my 20 gallon tank has been set up or about 5 years now. I don't use a filter sock, I don't use GFO, I don't have a refugium, I don't use chaeto, I don't have any reactors, I don't have a DSB, I rarely run GAC & everything is doing great. I'm also using tap water btw. If this isn't the KISS method, I don't know what is. Keeping a happy healthy reef tank doesn't have to be so complicated sometimes. GL

 

[killinit123]

^^^^^ you nailed it right on the head here man, everyone's system is different!! what may work for you may cause chaos in someone else tank. If your tank is running fine with no problems the way you have it, then why change anything or tell people they are doing something wrong just because its not set up the same way as yours??!! for instance i have a refugium in my tank and everything in my tank is doing fantastic lots of growth/color in corals fish are healthy etc. But if I was new to this hobby and heard someone say that there is no need for a refugium then i may possibly try and get rid of it (if i were a noob). in return this may have catastrophic effect on my tank! no matter how you look at it refugium, no refuge, DSB, bare bottom tank, etc etc. everyones system is different and requires different attention/components the only time it is safe to make big changes is when there is big problems IMO. If your just starting a reef tank go ahead and take chances see what works for you there is no harm in figuring things out when just starting.