A new LFS opened up in town and I decided to visit. The store had some nice stock and I was encouraged, but I have to admit I was surprised twice. The first surprise came in the form of two seahorses (H. erectus) housed in a eight-gallon nano tank. I usually think of them needing a bit more room. The store owner said this was at about the limit of tank size and maybe even a bit too small. The second surprise and the one I hope to discuss here came up as I had the opportunity to speak with the local breeder who happened to be in the store. I explained to her that I'd always loved seahorses and wanted to keep them, but had shied away from them, because I like to keep my house open a lot of the time (not always using central air) and I didn't want to use a chiller (mostly because of expense). She looked at me and said she had NEVER, not once utilized a chiller for her seahorses. I wanted to ask more about this, (not be argumentative), because it flew in the face of basically all my research. I told her I thought most diseases, etc. reared their head at elevated temperatures. She said she kept her S.G. at 1.020 and that kept illnesses at bay. I have heard of using hyposalinity baths to aid in health, but never a continuous state of lowered salinity. If it was a cure all, you'd think breeders and retailers would really push that information out there as I think some people avoid seahorses, because they seem difficult to keep, health-wise. Any thoughts on this?
Regarding Seahorses- Hyposalinity
- Thread starter St.A
- Start date
randomfishguy85
New member
1.020 isn't hyposalinity. I believe hyposalinity is 1.009 or something along those lines. Many people who don't have inverts or corals in their tank keep the salinity at 1.020. There is nothing wrong with it.
You should ask the moderator to move your thread to the seahorses forum you'll get some more good responses from some experts.
As far as the tank size for the erectus pair, they need at LEAST 29 Gallons. So he is giving out wrong information.
Who is the breeder in Fla. ? Her information is also flawed!! You are correct, high temperatures can and often invite harmful bacteria's like vibrio to get a foothold.
As far as the tank size for the erectus pair, they need at LEAST 29 Gallons. So he is giving out wrong information.
Who is the breeder in Fla. ? Her information is also flawed!! You are correct, high temperatures can and often invite harmful bacteria's like vibrio to get a foothold.
No, I haven't. That's why I brought it up here. I have heard of lowered salinity levels as a treatment for disease in seahorses. I have also read that seahorses are usually pretty accepting of lower than usual S.G., but that at below 1.010, seahorses show a rapid decline in health. I guess I was using the term less to indicate something akin to Osmotic Shock Therapy, and more like a sustained S.G. level lower than what I usually consider the norm or ideal.
I'm sorry to have posted this in the wrong place. I didn't even know there was a seahorse section!
spiceycat- I'm not sure of the breeder's name. She's here in St. Augustine and bragged of having bred several hundred seahorses.
There's no free lunch, but when I remember the thinking behind filtration and general tank keeping in marine aquaria when I first started keeping salt tanks 20 years ago compared to now, it's obvious leaps get made. I wondered if maybe this was one of them.
Koi and goldfish keepers treat any number of ailments with salt and many feel the prescribed concentrations of salt have increased over the years due to more resilient bacteria, etc.. One has to wonder if keeping seahorses at lower salt levels as a sort of preventative medication, even if efficacious, wouldn't lead to more resilient parasites down the road.
I'm sorry to have posted this in the wrong place. I didn't even know there was a seahorse section!
spiceycat- I'm not sure of the breeder's name. She's here in St. Augustine and bragged of having bred several hundred seahorses.
There's no free lunch, but when I remember the thinking behind filtration and general tank keeping in marine aquaria when I first started keeping salt tanks 20 years ago compared to now, it's obvious leaps get made. I wondered if maybe this was one of them.
Koi and goldfish keepers treat any number of ailments with salt and many feel the prescribed concentrations of salt have increased over the years due to more resilient bacteria, etc.. One has to wonder if keeping seahorses at lower salt levels as a sort of preventative medication, even if efficacious, wouldn't lead to more resilient parasites down the road.
Three or four inches I'd say, not counting the tail. Nice size. I kind of wondered, given her thoughts, if maybe she'd figured a way to get turnover pretty fast- raise them to breeding age, breed, and then move on if they die. She was so strangely lackadaisical. "I've never put a chiller on 'em," she said, like the thought hadn't even occurred. I asked about where they were raised and she said, "In our lab." So I thought, "Sure, a lab, they're cold." But she said no. She said most people over-thought seahorses and should just keep it simple. Strange, I think almost every single account of success with seahorses I've read has attributed a great deal of the success to cold, steady temperatures. Many who have had difficulty followed by later success said the chiller made the difference
If you would like some basics on seahorse keeping, coming from long term keepers, check the links at the bottom of "My Thoughts on Seahorse Keeping" paying special attention to "A commentary by Dan Underwood", AND the "vibrio/temperature discourse by pledoscophy see post #5".
As for the specific gravity level, I know a lot of people keep fish only tanks at the lower s.g. thinking that it is an aid to the fish in keeping parasites under control. I can't attest to it's validity.
As for the specific gravity level, I know a lot of people keep fish only tanks at the lower s.g. thinking that it is an aid to the fish in keeping parasites under control. I can't attest to it's validity.
TamiW
Seahorse Wrangler
A Commentary by Dan Underwood RayJay mentions really does a good job of explaining the issue. Yes, seahorses *can* be kept in at warmer temperatures, and yes, some do okay. But the reason for this is a combination of luck, water flow, and cleanliness. I've heard from an number of people that keep them successfully at warmer temperatures and have giant, shared water systems with low bioload. Or breeding facilities that have access to fresh seawater and can flush out old water. And I've known people that have kept them at warmer temperatures, and they only live a few years; but said person had easy access to more seahorses so didn't worry about it.
But otherwise, the shop keeper is wrong about tank size and salinity. Lower salinity only protects against some pathogens, like parasites, but one particular nasty one, Uronema, does better at lower salinity. So pick your poison. I run my salinity on the lower side (1.021-1.023) purely for a practical reason - cost. Seahorses should never be kept below 1.011; at anything lower you start seeing an overall decline in health.
Also, hyposalinity does nothing to prevent bacterial infections, which is the big seahorse killer and the reason lower temperatures are preferred.
And 8 gallons isn't even close to the right size. I hate that shops do this. 29 gallons is going to be minimum for a pair of H. erectus. You might be able to squeeze them into a 26 bowfront (I've known people that do) if you're diligent with water changes and have enough filtration and a good skimmer.
As she was in Florida, and these were fairly large seahorses, are you sure she was a breeder and not a fisher? A lot of bait shops catch seahorses as by-catch. 3-4 inches not including the tail is going to close to 5-7 inches total length, very large for captive bred seahorses. Not impossible, I have some larger ones I haven't sold because I've gotten lazy about marketing them when I get down to just a couple left. But I would worry at that size that they are bycatch seahorses.
You don't necessarily need a chiller if you can keep the temperature cooler by other means. If you have air conditioning and can set up the equipment to not generate a lot of heat, you might be good to go without a chiller. I've known people to use a window unit just to cool a bedroom with their tank, and bonus points, they get a cool room to sleep in.
FWIW, that really could be two or three broods of H. erectus. They're the easiest of the commonly available seahorses to raise, and many hobbyists give up the hobby because they had too many damn babies.
But otherwise, the shop keeper is wrong about tank size and salinity. Lower salinity only protects against some pathogens, like parasites, but one particular nasty one, Uronema, does better at lower salinity. So pick your poison. I run my salinity on the lower side (1.021-1.023) purely for a practical reason - cost. Seahorses should never be kept below 1.011; at anything lower you start seeing an overall decline in health.
Also, hyposalinity does nothing to prevent bacterial infections, which is the big seahorse killer and the reason lower temperatures are preferred.
And 8 gallons isn't even close to the right size. I hate that shops do this. 29 gallons is going to be minimum for a pair of H. erectus. You might be able to squeeze them into a 26 bowfront (I've known people that do) if you're diligent with water changes and have enough filtration and a good skimmer.
As she was in Florida, and these were fairly large seahorses, are you sure she was a breeder and not a fisher? A lot of bait shops catch seahorses as by-catch. 3-4 inches not including the tail is going to close to 5-7 inches total length, very large for captive bred seahorses. Not impossible, I have some larger ones I haven't sold because I've gotten lazy about marketing them when I get down to just a couple left. But I would worry at that size that they are bycatch seahorses.
You don't necessarily need a chiller if you can keep the temperature cooler by other means. If you have air conditioning and can set up the equipment to not generate a lot of heat, you might be good to go without a chiller. I've known people to use a window unit just to cool a bedroom with their tank, and bonus points, they get a cool room to sleep in.
FWIW, that really could be two or three broods of H. erectus. They're the easiest of the commonly available seahorses to raise, and many hobbyists give up the hobby because they had too many damn babies.
One of the nice things about this area is that many people have free access to natural sea water. I'm sure this person does. She claimed to be a breeder, but who knows. The thing that surprised me was (as in the case with the suggested readings) seahorse hobbyists, as with many marine keepers, have always seemed exacting, careful, thoughtful, and precise and she didn't seem any of those things. Certainly it would help to gain success. I'm betting if she is a breeder, the truth is she's working in a highly climate controlled environment with free access to sea water where doing even daily 50% water changes costs essentially nothing.
namxas
Things With Stings R Us!
If you have a M-F pair of SH, they will likely breed. We've even had MIXED species breed (of course successfully mixing species is a whole, very long story in itself). As Tami mentioned, a single brood can be 100 SH, easy...some of the commonly kept species can have 2000 fry at once.
I do agree that keeping SH can be done very simply (a std 29 gal with a HOB power filter, for instance), however, I do feel that stability is the key, and unless you're very meticulous about your water quality, it's much better to keep them below 75*F to keep the bacterial count down.
We kept and bred SH for several years without chillers, and always fretted springtime when the room ambient (and tank) temps can spike. With a chiller, that's on less thing to worry about.
As for tank size, SH will use every bit of lateral space you give them. The only reason they "don't swim much" is usually because they're grossly "undertanked". If you want to keep zots (dwarf SH), they can be kept in small setups, but require live food daily. Zots are very lazy little SH and may be one of the reasons folks say that "SH don't swim".
JME
I do agree that keeping SH can be done very simply (a std 29 gal with a HOB power filter, for instance), however, I do feel that stability is the key, and unless you're very meticulous about your water quality, it's much better to keep them below 75*F to keep the bacterial count down.
We kept and bred SH for several years without chillers, and always fretted springtime when the room ambient (and tank) temps can spike. With a chiller, that's on less thing to worry about.
As for tank size, SH will use every bit of lateral space you give them. The only reason they "don't swim much" is usually because they're grossly "undertanked". If you want to keep zots (dwarf SH), they can be kept in small setups, but require live food daily. Zots are very lazy little SH and may be one of the reasons folks say that "SH don't swim".
JME
