Regional frag swap in Dixon on Sat. Oct. 6
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northbay-reefer
New member
Cool 
Gentlemen,
I've gotta throw my two cents in. I've only been on RC and a memeber of NCR for a short time,but Tom has gone above and beyond to help me and the club further the hobby. I can honestly say that our club and passion wouldn't be the same without people like Tom. I sure hope Tom's intensions are not misinterperated agan in the future.
Bob
I've gotta throw my two cents in. I've only been on RC and a memeber of NCR for a short time,but Tom has gone above and beyond to help me and the club further the hobby. I can honestly say that our club and passion wouldn't be the same without people like Tom. I sure hope Tom's intensions are not misinterperated agan in the future.
Bob
northbay-reefer
New member
Bob, thanks for the kind words ... I knew if I pay you enough ........ :lol:
I'd second everything that Norm has said and I'd like to add a few notes:
First, I apologize for any slight on Tom. I believe the BOD is hypersensitive on this issue and I'd like to explain.
In the past, and even now, it's been very difficult to promote BAR Community spirit and values, while relatively easy to promote a line for free coral! One message (free coral) is simple, universally appealing and closed ended while the other message is complex, only appealing to some, and potentially open ended. I think the BOD spends about 80% of its time on Community issues and 20% on actual club business. Why do we do this? We've never really had a complete discussion about it since Rich and I started the club 8 million years ago but I'll share my thoughts.
I am personally appalled and disgusted by much of what I see in our hobby and industry in general. There, I said it.
People buy inappropriate species for uncycled, undersized, poorly equipped tanks and then just replace them with other inappropriate animals once those die. This, of course, accompanied by a total disregard for the environmental consequences of their actions and even less concern (if possible) for the sanctity of the lives they are sacrificing. This is only the first issue that comes to mind and I have many concerns, at every level of our hobby/industry. This is where most people find they left something cooking on the stove or they have a Parcheesi tournament to attend...
So the Community message is loaded with a whole bunch of responsibility and a gradual (or not so gradual!) stripping away of the delusions this hobby uses to justify personal, selfish motivations. Did I hear a few more people leaving?
Now, try and get a bunch (whoever hasn't bolted yet) of reef hobbyists engaged in a discussion of the ethics of our hobby, our responsibilities to the animals we keep, our obligations to ACT in response to threats to the wild reefs etc.... (snores from the back rows...).
I think our concern is that it's so easy for one message to get out there but so difficult for the other, especially since it's not 100% rosy.
More Koolaid anyone?
Again, sorry for the misunderstanding.
Jim Adelberg, BAR VP
First, I apologize for any slight on Tom. I believe the BOD is hypersensitive on this issue and I'd like to explain.
In the past, and even now, it's been very difficult to promote BAR Community spirit and values, while relatively easy to promote a line for free coral! One message (free coral) is simple, universally appealing and closed ended while the other message is complex, only appealing to some, and potentially open ended. I think the BOD spends about 80% of its time on Community issues and 20% on actual club business. Why do we do this? We've never really had a complete discussion about it since Rich and I started the club 8 million years ago but I'll share my thoughts.
I am personally appalled and disgusted by much of what I see in our hobby and industry in general. There, I said it.
People buy inappropriate species for uncycled, undersized, poorly equipped tanks and then just replace them with other inappropriate animals once those die. This, of course, accompanied by a total disregard for the environmental consequences of their actions and even less concern (if possible) for the sanctity of the lives they are sacrificing. This is only the first issue that comes to mind and I have many concerns, at every level of our hobby/industry. This is where most people find they left something cooking on the stove or they have a Parcheesi tournament to attend...
So the Community message is loaded with a whole bunch of responsibility and a gradual (or not so gradual!) stripping away of the delusions this hobby uses to justify personal, selfish motivations. Did I hear a few more people leaving?
Now, try and get a bunch (whoever hasn't bolted yet) of reef hobbyists engaged in a discussion of the ethics of our hobby, our responsibilities to the animals we keep, our obligations to ACT in response to threats to the wild reefs etc.... (snores from the back rows...).
I think our concern is that it's so easy for one message to get out there but so difficult for the other, especially since it's not 100% rosy.
More Koolaid anyone?
Again, sorry for the misunderstanding.
Jim Adelberg, BAR VP
northbay-reefer
New member
Jim,
Ok I am going to be serious now. I am not offended by this at all so don't worry. Physics' heart was in the right place. These kind of issues need to be discussed over and over until everyone get it because it is very important to our depleting reefs around the world. You and Norman and the rest of the BOD has represented the club and promote the club mission admirably, I and others from Northbay comes to respect what BAR represent and that is why we joined the club. We all wanted to have one of those beautiful reef tank in our house and that is why we are in the hobby in the first place. But to have something beautiful is one thing, to destroy the environment to get it is another. We all must be responsible for our own reef addiction. Its much better to give back more than you take from the environment.
Ok I am going to be serious now. I am not offended by this at all so don't worry. Physics' heart was in the right place. These kind of issues need to be discussed over and over until everyone get it because it is very important to our depleting reefs around the world. You and Norman and the rest of the BOD has represented the club and promote the club mission admirably, I and others from Northbay comes to respect what BAR represent and that is why we joined the club. We all wanted to have one of those beautiful reef tank in our house and that is why we are in the hobby in the first place. But to have something beautiful is one thing, to destroy the environment to get it is another. We all must be responsible for our own reef addiction. Its much better to give back more than you take from the environment.
Thanks for understanding. (rambling on now) I think the other hard part of BAR's message is the level of responsibility it places on the individual for so many things. We want to help people find educational resources, but we don't want to do their thinking for them. We want people to be productive members of the Community but we don't have any written code of behavior. We need to do more to clarify our mores instead of just relying on osmosis within the Community. I think BAR should do more in the way of public coral hugging.
crispyreef
New member
I know this discusion started with a comment(joke) to me. I assure all of you that I have full respect for the creatures of the reef and the community that is involved in it. Networking with the thought of conservation first is the only way this hobby(addiction) will survive. Those in my club know that they can come over and I will offer any of my frags or cut anything they like. I also want to mention that I hae been interested in BAR for a while now and I still plan to join, I'm waiting for a reply. Happy reefing.
northbay-reefer
New member
Chris, you can have my Bar membership :lol: .. I wonder if its transferable
sulcata1619
New member
Did you seriously just post that?
northbay-reefer
New member
Mike thats my point ... am never serious when it comes to online
I thought about how to respond to this for a while now.
I do know you're joking around, and I bet in person I'd just laugh along with you. Somehow humor (especially the sarcastic, tongue in cheek humor I love, as you do) just doesn't translate really well on-line. So, as a friend, I wanted to let you know that:
I like you
I know you're kidding around
I know you're what I would consider a "good" reefer
I still get annoyed when I read this post, despite the smilies!
Anyway, this is not a criticism, someone once told me the same thing and I found it useful so take it or leave it.
northbay-reefer
New member
Jim,
If I can joke around then I shouldn't take offense in anything right? but am not here to annoy you, so sorry if you feel that way. I like the BAR club and I like the people in it thats why am willing to drive almost 2 hours to every meetings since I joined. Someday after I get my feet wet, I like to help out when I can.
To me, The serious stuff should be done face to face and in a formal setting or in private. A single online message can be taken in many different ways and a misunderstanding can happen very easily and faster then you can hit that Enter key. That same misunderstanding can then propragated into something bigger then it realy is like in this case. For me online stuff should be taken with a grain of salt unless it has something to do with sexual harrassment, racial slurr and those type of abusive languages.
with that said, Let this rest and continue the important reason why we are here .... we are reefers ... shake hands and move on.
If I can joke around then I shouldn't take offense in anything right? but am not here to annoy you, so sorry if you feel that way. I like the BAR club and I like the people in it thats why am willing to drive almost 2 hours to every meetings since I joined. Someday after I get my feet wet, I like to help out when I can.
To me, The serious stuff should be done face to face and in a formal setting or in private. A single online message can be taken in many different ways and a misunderstanding can happen very easily and faster then you can hit that Enter key. That same misunderstanding can then propragated into something bigger then it realy is like in this case. For me online stuff should be taken with a grain of salt unless it has something to do with sexual harrassment, racial slurr and those type of abusive languages.
with that said, Let this rest and continue the important reason why we are here .... we are reefers ...
shake hands and move on.You do have to remember that the other 100,000 RC members may not see your joke and take you serious. IF your posts leaves a door open, an army will walk thru it
For some this is more then a hobby, it's their life. Like Jim and I. I eat, work, sleep, live and dream about MO related stuff
northbay-reefer
New member
Is this TAG team wrestling or something ?? :lol: come on guys let this rest.
Gresham, they can get through it if they want to because I realy dont care since its only online stuff ... :love1:
Gresham, they can get through it if they want to because I realy dont care since its only online stuff ... :love1:
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