Reidi Seahorse fry

kichikoi

kichikoi

New member
I'm looking for any additional suggestions or ideas on trying to raise what I believe are Reidi Seahorse fry.
Or anyone who has been able to do this?
I have researched and tried various goldfish bowl Kreisel methods with no success.
I currently am working on a divided 20g tank with a spray bar to keep the fry off the surface.
Next batch is due early Sunday morning...this will be the 6th batch.
thanks,
Karen
 
I too tried kreisel type nurseries, and also tanks which had deflectors glued to the top front and rear to deflect the water flow across and downwards.
I also tried using 5g water bottles, inverted with the bottoms cut out.
Finally, I achieved success using 4L wide mouth pickle jars with rigid air line tube providing water motion, and no filtration, but complete water changes every 48 hours. I also used live nannochloropsis in the jars.
Feeding was enriched rotifers initially and mix of enriched rots and enriched on grown bbs, followed by enriched ongrown bbs only.
While I do know that the other methods have been successful for others, I couldn't make it work myself, so I'm pleased that I finally found a way to make it work.
RAISING MY REIDI FRY
 
Rayjay has some good tips in his linked website. What you'll find is everyone has different ways of doing it. I am using 5 gallon buckets set up as small BRTs (black/blue round tubs.) I'm not happy with the set up and will be returning to fish bowl kreisels, only trying to modify with an overflow. Some people swear by the fish bowls, other BRTs, others just normal tanks.

Can you outline what you've done so far? And what you think might be the problem? There are many things that could go wrong. What are you feeding? When are they dying? What are the symptoms you see before they die?
 
How are you able with this method to keep the fry off the surface?
That has been my challenge.
I have tried 2 different fishbowl kreisel methods. First using water, then using an air stone version.
Each time they had either already swallowed the air bubble or were able to in the kreisel.

The last batch were born into a divided 20 gallon tank, with a spray bar across the surface.
It's like even though they get that first gasp of air, they continually fight to get to the surface.
I keep it covered with dark as well as the upper sides of the tanks. I even have a light at the lower part of the tank and they try to get to the surface.

What I don't understand is the very first batch was born in the main tank as were 2,3,4.
However as I was not quite prepared they were left in the main tank for several hours that day.
There were some in that first batch to actually settle down that first day and were eating live
little micro critters in the coral base! I eventually moved them to another tank, no kreisel and they eventually succumbed to the air bubble.
 
Last edited:
I don't know if you are asking about my method or FishGrrl's method but in my case the air flow going up the side of the glass directs the water upwards and the rounding of the glass directs the flow across the top where the opposite side rounding directs the flow downwards.
The air flow is turned up until the seahorse fry are unable to direct their swimming and can only go with the flow of the water for the most part, especially at the top.
There is some lower flow area in the bottom of the jar that some can partially make some headway but not of any significance.
I DO NOT use airstones as the bubbles are too small, but instead use 3/16" rigid air line tubing producing larger bubbles that give better motion in the jar.
 
kreisel...reidi seahorse fry

kreisel...reidi seahorse fry

Hi RayJay,
Actually it was to both!
I have looked at your page but without a close-up could not see how you kept them off the surface. That has been my main issue. I haven't been able to do that!
I tried using the fishbowl kreisels cutting holes and using aquarium dividers for the flow through. But there was still enough surface area on the top that they went across allowing them to snick air.
I was worried about the flow rate too. I've watched some of the kreisels on youtube and it seems the ponies are gently being moved through the water.
I was going for about that rate...not too fast, not too slow.
I was hoping with the depth of the 20gal that it would encourage more of them to settle in lower, I'm hoping with this next batch i'll have more success with modifying the spray bar...
I'm open to any ideas and suggestions at this point.
 
This is what I'm doing now:
2010-12-21005750.jpg


Notice the spray bar on the left. It didn't seem to do a great job of keeping the fry off the surface.

Prior to this, I did the in-tank kreisel with a hole cut in the side of a fish bowl. One of the rounded sides had water going in, the other had an air line to complete the circular water flow. However, I was only using 1 gallon bowls, and it had its own bunch of problems. but it kept fry off the surface.

And prior to that, like years ago, I did this:
http://www.fusedjaw.com/breeding/raising-fry-the-fish-bowl-method/

It used a 4 gallon fish bowl with a sponge filter glued to the side. I had the most early success with it (but lost fry later, that's another unrelated issue I've solved (sorta)).

I think the success came from the large bowl size. 1 gallon and 2.5 gallon bowls don't create the calm center area. Which is why I'm going to try to go back to this - only I'm planning on modifying it to have an overflow, so overall volume is higher, and waste is more easily swept out.
 
I have tried the big blue tank method but it doesn't work for me.. what does is the goldfish (2.5 gallon) bowl... On both flat sides, I cut out a circle and cover it with mesh and then on one of the rounded sides halfway up I put in an airline which I control the flow on.. this fish bowl is place inside a 20gallon long filled to the bottom of the inner lip of the goldfish bowl...
 
goldfish bowl kreisel

goldfish bowl kreisel

Peka,
The only plastic bowls with the flat sides that I have found are only about 1 gallon. Where do you find the larger ones?
 
kichikoi said:
I have looked at your page but without a close-up could not see how you kept them off the surface. That has been my main issue. I haven't been able to do that!
I tried using the fishbowl kreisels cutting holes and using aquarium dividers for the flow through. But there was still enough surface area on the top that they went across allowing them to snick air.
Click to expand...
As long as they are swept across the surface they are OK. In my set up they can't control where they go and the flow is significant, not low flow.
What makes you think they are still snicking air?
The bubble appearance is often just the swim bladder you see.
Most problems I find I suspect are protozoan in nature, mostly ciliates.
If you find you have "floaters" when flow is off temporarily, then by keeping them in continual motion so they can't control where they go should prevent any further air snicking if that is the problem, and indeed, I have floaters that survived and turned out to be normal.
Conversely, I've had one that looked excellent that didn't make it.
 
Reidi fry

Reidi fry

Generally what has happened is that by days 4 and 5 you can see the large silvery bubble in their throats. About that time most have difficulty swimming.
If I turn off the pumps they float to the surface on their sides.
The problem is with both goldfish bowls kreisel's I've used they always seem to find a low flow area on the surface. Same thing happened with the spray bar in the divided 20gal tank. I've added another so hopefully that helps.
 
As RayJay said, you do indeed need significant flow. In a kreisel type set up, the center will be a lot slower, where the fry can go to "rest" but along the outer edges it should be enough to sweep them by very rapidly.

This video is a very good example (not mine):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OEu3ThYt1M

Notice at the top left how quickly the fry are being swept by.
 
I failed miserably at reidi myself, I don't think your problem is snicking air, but a nutritional one (they get weak by about day 4-8 and then just give up the fight)

You don't mention what you use to feed the fry - maybe try going down that line of questioning and see what pops up.

Mark
 
Tami,
The only flat sided plastic fishbowls Petco has here are 1 gallon. And I think that has been the issue with those, no calm center area. I will try to get some of the larger 2 1/2 gal. ones online, especially if this 20 gal spray bar setup doesn't work this time.
Mark,
Immediately after I saw my male was pregnant for the first time I was able to get a rotifer culture and have been culturing them since. I also purchased Roti-feast as well as frozen rotifers just in case. I will also start enriched bbs when I can get the fry large enough.
Pete, at Ocean Rider has been very helpful with literature on Reidi fry. As they are very difficult to raise due to their size and the notorious issue with the air bubble.
Which according to the literature if you can see the silvery bubble in their throat, they are doomed. Trying to get the right flow rate has been difficult. They are quite good at finding the weak, low flow area's in the Kreisel's I have done so far!
This new batch is running a little late for the first time since 12/26. First batch was born mid morning 9ish, each consecutive batch getting earlier in the AM, before 5am!
However, I transferred Mom and Dad so that the last batch could be born in the nursery. Due to that, they began their mating ritual a little later in the morning after the last brood was born.
I'm still waiting today...
 
kichikoi said:
Generally what has happened is that by days 4 and 5 you can see the large silvery bubble in their throats. About that time most have difficulty swimming.
If I turn off the pumps they float to the surface on their sides.
The problem is with both goldfish bowls kreisel's I've used they always seem to find a low flow area on the surface. Same thing happened with the spray bar in the divided 20gal tank. I've added another so hopefully that helps.
Click to expand...
I think you are worrying too much about the air bubble problem.
You are most likely keeping the flow too low also if they can snick at the surface.
I turn up the air so that none can snick at the surface. If they are being swept across the surface quickly then they will be OK.
As I mentioned earlier, I have fry with bubbles that survived just fine as it only takes clean food and environment and sufficient quality food and a lot will grow out of the problem.
The problem probably lies somewhere else, as in pathogens or bacteria.
What is your housekeeping regime for the nursery?
Nurseries are notorious for needing frequent wiping down all inside surfaces and water changes including vacuuming if needed, to lessen the chance of bacteria being a problem.
If all these are done correctly and then if you increase the flow from your spray bar so all fry get swept quickly across the top of the tank an back down into the water column, I'm sure you will start to see a greater success.
 
I'm pretty sure that in the goldfish bowls that were only 1 gal. the flow may have been too high? And with the divided 20gal. it was too low.
I've added an additional downward spray bar and the water flow seems to be much better.
On the opposite side of the tank I have two pumps that power the spray bars(now...) as well as running an air stone.
I also change water from this side, but will try vacuuming from the nursery side this time also. I've also thought about adding a filter, but was worried it would be remove the rotifers?
I'm not sure either on the quantity of food. How much is enough or not enough?
I add live rotifers and still see them between feedings...Is there an idea on the density I should be seeing?
 
I can crank the flow right up and it doesn't hurt the seahorse fry at all.
Some people think that the fry need to control their motion to be able to feed, but that is not so when the feeding density is sufficient.
As for feeding density, that depends on the breeder as to what method they use.
Some remove all excess food at a given time after feeding, and repeat the feeding 3 or 4 times a day, while others leave the food in all the time.
I personally leave the live food in. I start with enriched live food and because the water has greenwater in it, there is some nutritional value to the live food feeding on it, and, the greenwater can make use of ammonia produced by the fry. I keep the containers lit 24/7.
You mention vacuuming but say nothing about cleaning the tank.
I think you will find most, if not all people raising reidi fry will be cleaning the film on the interior surfaces of the nursery every two days or so. That means a complete wiping followed by a water change.
If NOT done, you increase the chances of bacterial problems with the fry.
I do a complete water change and complete cleaning and bleaching of the four litre jars every fourty eight hours, with new water and new enriched live food. When I used tanks for nurseries I still cleaned thoroughly every fourty eight hours followed by a large water change and vacuuming.
 
I have wiped it down in between the batches of fry, but was unaware I should be wiping down the inside of the glass while the fry are in it!
I'll try doing the larger water volume changes as well as cleaning the inside of the glass this time. I think I may need to get another tank to transfer the fry to so that I can really get the tank clean.
I also have been adding the rotifers as well as green water so that they have a constant food source.

And I'll try not to worry so much about those shiny bubbles!
thanks!
 
Are you enriching the rots and bbs before placing them in the tank.
I prefer to use Dan's Food with/without Beta Glucan from seahorsesource.com.
 
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