Religious debate in Denmark about reactor vs balling

[Pederreefnerd]

Hi everybody,

Here in Denmark we have a lot of nice sps tanks.
Some run Balling, and some run calcium rx.

Lately people running with calcium rx tell the rest of us, that they get better color, and better growth because of that.

Now the same people even say its because of Co2 added to the water!

Im a strong beleiver in stabile water parameters, and my personal beleive is that it doesnt matter, if you choose one for the other.

Futhermore both groups have proper husbandry, good growth and do weeklywaterchanges.

Can anyone here plz give input about peoples opnion are wrong or not :beer:

I do understand people can have personal refferences, but Im looking to an answer if there really is a different in growth and color of the coral, due to the use of a Calcium Rx ?

And if there would be a scientific prove even better.

Hope i will get a lot of answers

Kind regards
Peder

 

[Reef Frog]

I'm not familiar with the term "balling" in the context of SW aquariums. Calcium RX sounds like a calcium supplement? Is the debate about the best ways or different methods to supplement calcium?

Everyone here would have to agree that the achievement of tank stability is the very best thing you can do for a successful tank.

But anything that added CO2 could possibly be problematic, as it has the potential to lower pH. This could release bound up phosphates in live rock & sand and could affect calcification processes in stony corals.

 

[power boat jim]

I use both methods a Ca rx and three part dosing. There is no 'better" way. Both work just fine. It just got to the point where my reactor is running close to max and the Alk and Ca needed a little more help so I started dosing the three part.

 

[Reef Raf]

There is some anecdotal evidence that balling method has some extra advantages like curing some common fish illnesses. But I do not know for sure if this has been proven one way or the other. My LFS set up a Balling tank and it's been very good so far. They were having issues with a mostly SPS frag tank being all over the place with parameters. High and low rates of things every few days for no real apparent reason. Everything stabilized and the tank looks great now, everything has never looked healthier. But it is impossible to say if it was because of the addition of the Balling or not. But things stabilized within days of it being added. So it appears to be the reason. But certainly, I think the most important thing is keeping everything perfectly in equilibrium.

Recently I took a tank down to swap in a new one. I did not immediately reinstall my ATO and that proved to be a real issue. It makes sense. Having the water level rise and fall every few days allowed different levels, salt..calcium...alkalinity etc. to fluctuate. I do not think it matters HOW you keep things stable, just that you do. Fish and coral adapt to a huge variety of living situations, as long as they get to make changes slowly. Temperature, salinity, levels of chemicals etc seem to not be as important if they stay the same, whether it be high or low. But when they are allowed to bounce around, things can die very quickly.

Just my experience.

 

[Allmost]

melting corals, to grow corals.

or dosing chemicals, and hoping corals will take up at the same ratio dosed ...

what do u think ?

I see better color and growth, switching from DIY 2 part to B-ionic. and even better color and growth when I added a CA RX.

 

[Pederreefnerd]

Thx guys,

I can see pros and cons with both systems.
Chemicals for sure not sound as good as melting a coral, but its the same chemicals we use in our waterchanges.

What about the Co2 ?

 

[power boat jim]

Thx guys,

I can see pros and cons with both systems.
Chemicals for sure not sound as good as melting a coral, but its the same chemicals we use in our waterchanges.

What about the Co2 ?

Its not a problem, it blows off pretty easily. The pH in my tank is 8.2 running a reactor.

 

[Pederreefnerd]

Its not a problem, it blows off pretty easily. The pH in my tank is 8.2 running a reactor.

Yes, i agree, but what i meant to say was,

What du u guys think about the statement, that the added Co2 from the Calcium Rx makes better color ?

Sorry, but english is not my native language

 

[power boat jim]

Yes, i agree, but what i meant to say was,

What du u guys think about the statement, that the added Co2 from the Calcium Rx makes better color ?

Sorry, but english is not my native language

I can honestly say that that has never been given any consideration in any forum I have been in. There is probably a reason for that. I will go out on a limb and say Co2 has no DIRECT effect on coloration in coral.

 

[Pederreefnerd]

I can honestly say that that has never been given any consideration in any forum I have been in. There is probably a reason for that. I will go out on a limb and say Co2 has no DIRECT effect on coloration in coral.

Thx Jim,

I agree with u - personally I see no reason what so ever, that this will improve color.

Reason I ask, is to give feedback to Denmark - and also to have an open mindset - we can always learn new stuff

 

[Allmost]

added co2 = lower PH.

I personally have never noticed color change with respect to PH shift.

the shift in PH will last not long, as it will return to equilibrium, specially in SPS tanks with high flow.

 

[Pederreefnerd]

added co2 = lower PH.

I personally have never noticed color change with respect to PH shift.

the shift in PH will last not long, as it will return to equilibrium, specially in SPS tanks with high flow.

I agree,
We want PH as stable as possible:spin3:

Thx for yr answer, its appreciated

 

[Allmost]

Id love to see/hear other side of the argument too though as well. maybe they do have a point which we are missing here !

 

[Pederreefnerd]

Id love to see/hear other side of the argument too though as well. maybe they do have a point which we are missing here !

Exactly - lets hear any inputs, why it should be positive for coral color to add Co2

 

[Reef Frog]

So is the balling method just another name for a calcium reactor with CO2? Or is it something else?

 

[Pederreefnerd]

So is the balling method just another name for a calcium reactor with CO2? Or is it something else?

Hi,

No, balling is name of the methodology "invented" by a guy named Balling.

Its a old but still newer version(compared to Calcium Reactor) to keep up with the lack of ca, Kh and mg(and in some versions trace elements) due to coral growth.

http://reefdreams.de/lang_eng/info_3_eng.html

Hope this helps u

 

[toothman]

I noticed more algae growth in my tank when I used reactor, especially on the glass. That was 5 yrs ago. I thought I had no regrets using balling method. I also like the faunna marin additives 1,2,3. I generally do have to adjust the dosing 2x a week.

 

[dkeller_nc]

So is the balling method just another name for a calcium reactor with CO2? Or is it something else?

It's essentially 2-part dosing. The difference between the Balling method and the typical 2-part dosing employed by most is that he uses a salt mix that is deficient in sodium chloride to account for the sodium chloride that's added via the 2-part calcium chloride and sodium bicarbonate/carbonate.

Most of us think that's unnecessary as long as reasonably frequent water changes are employed to re-balance the ionic ratios in the tank.

 

[dkeller_nc]

Thx Jim,

I agree with u - personally I see no reason what so ever, that this will improve color.

Reason I ask, is to give feedback to Denmark - and also to have an open mindset - we can always learn new stuff

Indeed, many advancements in the hobby have their genesis in anecdotal observations.

However, perceptions of color, more so than most other observations, are highly subjective, and something called "confirmation bias" is also at work with both sides - one tends to accept observations that support one's hypothesis, and reject observations that don't.

My guess is that there are far, far too many variations in the reef tanks using 2-part vs. Calcium Reactors to be able to draw any meaningful conclusions regarding the coloration of corals.

What is not in doubt is that a calcium reactor adds ionic species other than calcium and carbonate to the tanks water. Some of these are strontium, magnesium, lithium, and boron. Potentially, phosphate is added in small amounts as well. In theory, one could easily make up for the lack of trace elements being added in 2-part dosing with trace element supplements.

In practice, that's difficult because most of the bioactive trace elements in seawater are at such low concentrations that quantitation requires sophisticated techniques such as Inductively Coupled Argon Plasma (ICAP) analysis.

 

[Pederreefnerd]

Thx Dkeller

For a very positive and thoughtfull answer - its appreciated.

I was under the impression, that ca rx didnt give back traceelement to the tank.

Remember a professor once saying, its has never been proven to dissolve theese ions back - that "procedure" happens accordingly to him only the deep waters in the ocean, and of course under a lot of preasure.

Anyway - i think u are spot on in regards to nutriens, and if we are talking about organic Phospate - its essential for our coral.(in small ammounts)

The above mentioned traceelements are ofcourse added to some ARM media, and to the "prosessional" 2 part dosing - and I know that these give those ions back to the watervolume.

Thx again

Peder