Remote Deep Sand Bed

[PhilipOSU]

It has been suggested to me that I add a remote deep sand bed to my system to help keep Nitrates in check. I was told that Play sand works just fine for a RDSB, but was wondering how deep I should make the sand; the deeper the better, or is there a range that you guys would suggest?

Thanks,
Phil

 

[Tonycip]

I took mine out it was geting sulfer build up it killed all the life in the refugium and killed the macro algae also. but if you still want to try it 6" is the min depth good luck..

 

[markviiisvt4]

I had 3 ten gallons full that I used. Worked well, but my nitrates stayed down after I switched display tanks. I never set them back up.

 

[PhilipOSU]

I have also heard the reviews of the DSB crashing the tank. I am also tossing around the idea of vodka dosing, but am a little concerned over the Oxygen levels dropping on me with vodka dosing since I already struggle maintaining PH due to weak oxygen levels.

 

[joe22883]

dsb's work.

 

[aninjaatemyshoe]

The point of a RDSB is that you can remove the sand when there is too much build up of crap and replace it easily with fresh sand. If I remember correctly from back when I was reading about this idea, play sand (silicate sand) packs very tightly and may not allow for much bacterial growth deep down. Though, it is a bit expensive to use aragonite.

If you're going to dose vodka, chances are that you're not going to get a whole lot of work out of your RDSB. Vodka dosing is so effective at removing nitrates and phosphates that you're not going to have much left for the RDSB. I would probably also make sure to plumb the RDSB after your skimmer in the sump so that you won't get much build-up of bacteria and other stuff on the RDSB.

 

[PhilipOSU]

Thanks Joe. Have you tried dosing vodka? Is/has anyone else around dosing/dosed vodka? If so what are your conclusions. I have read good review on it in the Reefkeeping Magazine, but as I mentioned I seem to carry a low PH due to the house staying closed up and lack of oxygen inside the house. They mentioned in the article it important to maintain your oxygen levels in the tank because the dosing can torpedo them.

 

[vietcu]

I am doing the vodka dosing right now, and have been for the past month or so. I did it because I had a bad cyano attack, not because of nitrate. Although I think it did help with my nitrate as well as get rid of my cyano. My coclusion so far is that dosing vodka works, at least in my tank. I no longer have any cyano (some still in the sump), and I rarely have to clean my DT glass from algae and whatever else that builds up on it.

 

[PhilipOSU]

Vietcu, what is your typical PH on your tank? Have you seen it drop any due to vodka dosing.

My situation is my current PH range that I am maintaining is 7.75-7.85. I don't think I can afford the dosing to reduce my oxygen levels and that driving my PH further down.

 

[vietcu]

I do not check my PH on a regular basis, going to get a PH probe soon for calcium reactor though. But testing it I am above 8 every time I test for it, sorry I know that doesn't help you much. As far as it dropping after the vodka dose, I don't think I dose enough in my tank for it to affect my PH at all. My tank is around 80-100 total water volume, and I only max out at 1ml per day. Only thing I can definitely conclude from vodka dosing is my glass is super clean, all sides. How do I know its super clean? My wife hasn't nagged me about cleaning my tank for almost 2 months now .

 

[aninjaatemyshoe]

You have to be careful with vodka dosing. Stay on the low end in terms of amount dosed. Increase the amount very gradually and wait for a downward trend of your nitrates. If the nitrates don't go down, increase slightly until they start to decrease. Once the nitrates are effectively at zero, decrease the vodka dosing a bit and maintain. Depending upon the circumstances in your tank, you may or may not also remove all your phosphates in the process. If you do have excess phosphates after you have gotten rid of your nitrates, add some GFO.

 

[PhilipOSU]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14134766#post14134766 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by aninjaatemyshoe
The point of a RDSB is that you can remove the sand when there is too much build up of crap and replace it easily with fresh sand. If I remember correctly from back when I was reading about this idea, play sand (silicate sand) packs very tightly and may not allow for much bacterial growth deep down. Though, it is a bit expensive to use aragonite.

If you're going to dose vodka, chances are that you're not going to get a whole lot of work out of your RDSB. Vodka dosing is so effective at removing nitrates and phosphates that you're not going to have much left for the RDSB. I would probably also make sure to plumb the RDSB after your skimmer in the sump so that you won't get much build-up of bacteria and other stuff on the RDSB.

Good points, thanks. That does make sense on the play sand packing too tightly and limiting the deep bacterial growth. I may just start dosing vodka and table the RDSB for the short term. If I do end up adding the DSB I will make sure I plumb it out of my return chamber and them back into either my fuge or the return chamber.

 

[PhilipOSU]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14135063#post14135063 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by vietcu
How do I know its super clean? My wife hasn't nagged me about cleaning my tank for almost 2 months now .

Well obviously it has been a huge success for you !!!

 

[DiscoReefRover]

yeah thats the Ticket!

 

[PhilipOSU]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14135083#post14135083 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by aninjaatemyshoe
You have to be careful with vodka dosing. Stay on the low end in terms of amount dosed. Increase the amount very gradually and wait for a downward trend of your nitrates. If the nitrates don't go down, increase slightly until they start to decrease. Once the nitrates are effectively at zero, decrease the vodka dosing a bit and maintain. Depending upon the circumstances in your tank, you may or may not also remove all your phosphates in the process. If you do have excess phosphates after you have gotten rid of your nitrates, add some GFO.

This was my plan to keep the dosings low gradually raising them till I see a drop in nitrates then as nitrates drop pull back the amount i am dosing. The only issue that I have with this is IMO the nitrate test kit I have sucks. I feel color blind every time I try to reference my test to the color card for my reading. If anyone knows of a good brand of Nitrate test kit that is easy to read I would love the info. I would consider a nitrate moniter, but they go about $200 which is not in the budget right now.

 

[serpentman]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14135253#post14135253 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by PhilipOSU
I would consider a nitrate moniter, but they go about $200 which is not in the budget right now.

From what I gather these are a PITA anyways. Because they aren't really designed for continuous monitoring, I believe they need to be calibrated for each test.

 

[PhilipOSU]

I was aware that they were basically a "tester" not monitor, but the fact that they need calibrated every time definitely makes them a PITA.

 

[Thinslis]

To your question about using "play sand" I wouldn't reccomend it. In fact I would PM someone who is breaking down a tank and see if you can get some sand off of them. I know Greg is breaking his tank down, check with him.

 

[PhilipOSU]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14136546#post14136546 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Thinslis
To your question about using "play sand" I wouldn't reccomend it. In fact I would PM someone who is breaking down a tank and see if you can get some sand off of them. I know Greg is breaking his tank down, check with him.

I think I am going to put off the DSB in favor of vodka dosing in the short term, but that sounds like a good idea picking sand up off of someone while breaking down. I would need to rinse the heck out of it if I go that direction, but I am sure it would save me some $$$ . If anyone has any reccomendations on a good Nitrate test kit I am all ears. Right now I am using the API test kit, I am not a huge fan.

 

[Aadler]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14134766#post14134766 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by aninjaatemyshoe
If I remember correctly from back when I was reading about this idea, play sand (silicate sand) packs very tightly and may not allow for much bacterial growth deep down.

This isn't exactly true. Will try to do some searching for you. I love DSB's.

You can make anything work however, many people use vodka to great results, some ef up their tank. Many people use mud to wonderful results, some mess it up. Many people use DSB's to exceptional results, some crash their tank. Briefly meeting you I doubt you will eff up any of the solutions to nutrient export.

I myself like the most natural ways (sand or mud in this case). Makes the most sense to me to attempt to copy nature. Then again, there are area's of the ocean that are similar to vodka (heat/gas released from undersea volcano's create tons of bacteria which do their part for the circle of life... etc etc).

mike