Remote volume (extra gallons) for stability

[brad65ford]

Hey guys, I've been nano sps reefing and its been tough balancing alk/cal with out dosers. I would like to add a remote tank just for extra volume (gallons) i'm thinking so large Rubbermaid tub. Is this a safe idea or will there be negative effect for having to much water volume for a small nano tank with minimal rock / sps's?

 

[SneekaPeek]

Hey guys, I've been nano sps reefing and its been tough balancing alk/cal with out dosers. I would like to add a remote tank just for extra volume (gallons) i'm thinking so large Rubbermaid tub. Is this a safe idea or will there be negative effect for having to much water volume for a small nano tank with minimal rock / sps's?

an added tank will help with added water volume therefore stability. I would do it. It will help with the frequency of water changes. +1 good idea! negative effect you might get a minimal cycle, thats all. why not add rock in there as well?

 

[brad65ford]

Thank SP, its a question I haven't seen much on the reef forums. I originally wanted a remote DSB to achieve both goals of having more volume along with the DSB.

oh and my setup is a 8g shallow frag tank and a 2 gallon small tank attached with just live rock and come cheato's all tanks are BB. I watch my alk drop 1.3 dhk a day do to the demand of sps's I'm thinking mostly the monti's are sucking it up LOL.

I do have dosing pumps on the way which should help keep my parameters in check daily. But I'm really thinking about increase the volume along with anything else that might help for better stability and more growth.

 

[edsreef]

Have you tried kalk in your top off water?

 

[epicurus84]

If you keep life rock in the second tank i suggest to light it opposite to the tank this way you can keep it even more stable.

 

[Donkeykong]

Remote rubbermaid containers work well to increase water volume and thus help with stabilization. Make it a full blow refugium and it can also help with PH swings and help with excess nutrients.

 

[brad65ford]

You guys are great, sorry I didn't response sooner also thanks for all that have responded, its amazing how much we think about our systems and how they can be better.

I've tried Kalk +2 in the auto top off for over a year and didn't like it since it was only giving me high calcium results. The alk would always stay low with Calcium over 500. Lately I'm mixing 1 teaspoons of baking soda every other day just to say at 7-8 dhk. I would like to do water changes every other week but end up missing a few weeks. Water changes seem to be awesome for perfect alk/cal balance but I still believe they are not the whole answer.

The main tank is a 8g bb shallow frag tank (no fish just a few snails) and has a 2 1/2 gallon lightly lite tank working as a refug attach which is also BB with live rock and cheato's. I like having the cheatos just a guide since it serves as a great measuring device for p04. I'm running the same light schedule since I had a problem with cyano for months, odd as it seems the only way I got rid of it was running the same light schedule. Amazing how you could have two tanks running in the same system and one tank running with cyano and the other not.

I really want to grow some sps's faster than what I'm doing. So it seems I'm chasing my thoughts around in circles and really just want a larger system. But before I do so I want to see if I can run a large volume of water with out much live rock? I'd love to connect a 50g Rubbermaid garage bucket to the system to see if it increase stability and increase growth. I've read so much debate on the whole bacteria in the water column and or lack of compared to the live rock or sand.

 

[Alex T.]

Just remember that added water volume means added skimmer needs. If your skimmer is up to the task...that's great. If not, then it will eventually catch up in nutrients and you'll have to do larger volume water changes. As for the rock, you could easily leave some live rock unlit and let sponges colonize the rock that would help in taking up nutrients.

 

[brad65ford]

Alex how so, just trying to understand why one would now need a skimmer if one just added more volume to that tank. Usually its when you add more bio-load to the system, if anything it would be the other way around.

 

[toothman]

owning a tank at my office with a 150 gallon rubbermade sump and a 250 gallon sump at my house I would say, yes.

You have to be careful with the return pump if your overflow got blocked for any reason that could be a bunch of water on your floor. I would put it high in the sump and make sure your overflow box works very well.

 

[brad65ford]

Thanks toothman, do you run anything else in the rubbermade sumps ie sand or rock?

 

[REEF SMAC]

More water volume for increased stability sounds like a good idea to me.

I think the only thing issue you will have is that you will need a larger heater to heat a larger volume of water.

 

[brad65ford]

The more I think about it the trickier I think it is since my frag tank is only 8g and if I attack a 30g tub with a natural gravity overflow I'm going to have to much water into the main system with power offs just like toothman said. Damn I so need a large tank

 

[Donkeykong]

I really want to grow some sps's faster than what I'm doing.

SPS grow slowly, even in some of the best tanks I have ever seen they still grow slowly. Some species like birdsnest grow faster than others, but they are more the exception not the rule.

 

[brad65ford]

Totally with you on understanding and excepting the growth rate per corals I have now. My issue is the tank fluctuating. I have a small period of great polyp extension and health look /growth then regardless of water changes it seems to bounce out of swing of things.

 

[Alex T.]

Alex how so, just trying to understand why one would now need a skimmer if one just added more volume to that tank. Usually its when you add more bio-load to the system, if anything it would be the other way around.

If you increase the volume enough, it's only going to be stable as long as it can stay filtered and processed at least at the same rate you are doing it now. Simply increasing the water volume doesn't guarantee that nitrates and phosphates aren't going to creep up over time. Eventually, your water change volume, carbon usage and/or GFO are going to increase. Skimmers aren't rated for display tank volume. They're rated for system volume. You'll have to process all the water in the system to see the benefits of "stability".

 

[REEF SMAC]

The more I think about it the trickier I think it is since my frag tank is only 8g and if I attack a 30g tub with a natural gravity overflow I'm going to have to much water into the main system with power offs just like toothman said. Damn I so need a large tank

How would having the power off affect the the amount of water in your main system?

If you increase the volume enough, it's only going to be stable as long as it can stay filtered and processed at least at the same rate you are doing it now. Simply increasing the water volume doesn't guarantee that nitrates and phosphates aren't going to creep up over time. Eventually, your water change volume, carbon usage and/or GFO are going to increase. Skimmers aren't rated for display tank volume. They're rated for system volume. You'll have to process all the water in the system to see the benefits of "stability".

Although I would agree that eventually NO3 and PO4 will go up over time if it's not somehow being removed but this would be dependent on bio load and feeding of an 8 gallon tank. I don't really see why a larger skimmer would be needed for simply adding extra water volume without any extra bio load.
IMO a skimmer's size is dependent on bio load and feeding and nothing to do with a system's water volume.
Don't really see why you would need to increase GFO or Carbon either.....?

 

[brad65ford]

How would having the power off affect the the amount of water in your main system?

Simple, I do not want to over float on my little 8g frag tank with gravity return setup. My original thought was to pump from the main tank to this large volume tub/tank and have it over flow back via gravity. This has worked well for me now with a little 2g side refug but when I shut power off I'm very close to over flowing the main display tank since the last 1/4" of water on the top surface drains back to the main tank. If I had an even larger body of water (larger surface area) I would increase the height of return water with power off conditions. Or at least this is what I think in my head LOL.

What I've released would work perfect would be a large canister pump just for holding volume and circulating the water, also no need to worry about power off conditions. Only issue i'm facing is finding something like this in a 20g setup LOL.

Although I would agree that eventually NO3 and PO4 will go up over time if it's not somehow being removed but this would be dependent on bio load and feeding of an 8 gallon tank. I don't really see why a larger skimmer would be needed for simply adding extra water volume without any extra bio load.
IMO a skimmer's size is dependent on bio load and feeding and nothing to do with a system's water volume.
Don't really see why you would need to increase GFO or Carbon either.....?

Totally agree with you.

 

[REEF SMAC]

Simple, I do not want to over float on my little 8g frag tank with gravity return setup. My original thought was to pump from the main tank to this large volume tub/tank and have it over flow back via gravity. This has worked well for me now with a little 2g side refug but when I shut power off I'm very close to over flowing the main display tank since the last 1/4" of water on the top surface drains back to the main tank. If I had an even larger body of water (larger surface area) I would increase the height of return water with power off conditions. Or at least this is what I think in my head LOL.

What I've released would work perfect would be a large canister pump just for holding volume and circulating the water, also no need to worry about power off conditions. Only issue i'm facing is finding something like this in a 20g setup LOL.

So this larger sump is going to be higher than your DT?

Why would you place it higher? I'm confused.
Is there a reason why you wouldn't place the larger sump lower than your DT and have your DT overflow into this sump? Place the pump in this sump also?

 

[brad65ford]

Help me out her Reef Smac, I do not have a drilled tank though