Researching hobby, checking scene in area

[kevin95695]

Hi!

Just investigating the possibility of making the jump to SW (would like to go reef) setup after 15+ years in the FW hobby. Have browsed LFSs, plus on-line resources and gotten a lot of encouragement from a friend in town who is a nanoreefer.

I'm a maintenance nut on my FW setups and am not that scared of the jump, but want to do it well.

Have gone back and forth on regular setup vs. 'all-in-one' cubes.

Currently considering a Red Sea Max setup. I'm aware of some pros and cons, but feel I'd get the best bang for the buck on my budget without having to mod the setup too much in the beginning. From the complete reef noob perspective, I like the idea of an all-in-one with a larger capacity (34g) that seems to have at least workable versions of the major necessary components and very clean lines. Not a lot of exposed plumbing, wiring, etc.

Anyway, like I said, just checking out the scene in the area and thought I'd stop by. Thanks for any tips or advice from those of you that've been where I am in the past...

- Kevin

 

[MelodyCorals]

Welcome!

It sounds like SW and probably reef, is something you would enjoy. I started out with some similar ideas, and then went the way I have seen a lot of people head - upgrade. What I mean is that you may start with something "all-in-one" and then find that you want to add or change out this/that/etc. and that you want to make certain upgrades to the setup that by design your all-in-one may limit you. I eventually found that buying a reef-ready tank and adding the components I wanted and customizing along the way was a much more enjoyable process then I had thought it would be, and the end result is something I'm proud of that works the way I wanted it to.

Your perspective may be different, but you may find that shortly into your "all-in-one" system that you want to make adjustments that your setup may limit you in choices on. Although I've only been doing this for a few years - my recommendation would be to research a lot (like it sounds you have been), get some good advice from others in the hobby (again, sounds like your getting there) and then with that knowledge build yourself a setup with the best fit for you of each component - unless of course you end with something that looks like the all-in-one anyway.....

Good luck, and keep us posted on your progress. I think either way you go, you will have a lot of fun in the hobby â€"œ the first few months may be tough starting out (cycling, algae, etc.), but there is a lot of enjoyment too.

-- Josh

 

[DarkDevil]

IMO, if you want to have a clean simple setup, without a lot of piping or wires and what not; maybe if you just want something on your desk next to the computer, or something to put on the night stand next to your bed, then a "all-in-one" is best for you.

on the other hand, if you like to build, mess with things, and likes to take on challenge type, then a "regular" setup may be better. it gives you more ability to play with stuffs.

I am not saying you can't mess with "all-in-one" setup, but if you do, you will end up like a "regular" setup, so why not start with a regular setup but upgrade slowly?

Also I am sure this happens to everybody in this hobby, at first you think you just wanna keep little stuffs, some softies, that's it. but end up with a large skimmer, MH lights, CA reactor, and couple dosing pumps, because the most beautiful coral that you like need the items mentioned earlier.

so you decide, but IME, start with a "regular" tank, preferably a bit bigger like 30-40ish, use it as an education. nobody do it right the first time, I mean even if you do it right, you are bound to do soemthing stupid or mess something up. when you get a hang of it, then try something different, like a smaller system, a larger system, or even a simple "all-in-one" design for your desktop. Wish you good luck.

 

[Justin74]

Hey Kevin, welcome!

All great comments and advice guys. I think the only thing I would add is focus your attention now on what you would like to see in your all in one, as I can understand your reasons for getting one. Browse through the millions of pictures and get an idea of the corals and fish you would like for yourself. Now just read up on the requirements of said animals as well as others experience with those. This will let you know if your tank will be suitable and also make you more aware of your limitations as Josh mentioned. Certain critters sold in this hobby are obligate feeders and will perish if there particular diet is not provided to them, as with everything there is a niche. Just research before you buy, otherwise you may be just throwing it away. Great marine sight for any and all questions will probably be asked and answered here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com
Very helpfull knowledgeable staff with decades of experience.
Best of luck Kevin.

-Justin

 

[dots]

I have been suggesting to people that want to get into the hobby to try a nanocube first.....the 24g. They are ready to go so the "newbie" can get the instant gratification of getting a SW tank. There are tons of mods and with the current systems can even dabble in a little SPS, clam, or anenome action.

I believe that not all SW tanks are created equal and that depending on what one wants to keep, it is hard to buy a larger tank that one would have to piece together and get the correct parts for........I think we can all agree that the equipment and tank requirments for a softie tank is greatly different than that of a SPS tank.......I believe that there should be classifications like FOWLR, like Softie, Mixed, SPS....etc, based one these models the equipment is select....ie: do I need MH lighting or a reactor?

The hardest thing for a "newbie" to answer is some of these questions when they don't know what LPS, SPS is to begin with and the odds of them needing something differenent in the near future is probably certain.

I think gettting into the hobby by the ways of a nano is a wise decision, it gets the person familiar with the husbandry, fish, livestock, corals, and problems associated with the hobby rather than dump thousands into a tank, that they may end up selling cuz its too much work or they don't have say........a drilled overflow tank that find now they need..........They are cheap and easy to sell off to the next generation or keep as a QT tank and aren't a large financial burden as say as the large money pit now occupying my livingroom.

or worse have an Eclipse 3 like I had and trying to turn is into a reef tank........

I say dip your toes until you know for sure what you want and need to have "that tank" that you want......Unless of course that is already known.....then we can help spend your money very fast!!

 

[kevin95695]

Ha! Dots, you're funny!

Thanks so far everybody. I'll take your advice.

My biggest concern with the all-in-one concept is limited capacity for lighting in the stock hoods and therefore species I could keep. I know there are people out there with experience modding hoods for some of the established all-in-ones, so I'm sure it'll happen w/the Red Sea MAX 34 before too long. I think my next step may be to find out what species are compatible with each other given the available light in the tank...

I have come to peace with the fact that eventually I will likely become addicted and upgrade, and will likely build a 'full-on' custom set-up as my marriage allows.

But for starters the thought of having a $600 investment (sure I know, live sand, live rock, livestock etc. will cost a lot more, but those costs are there with either option...) vs. accumulating hardware components at $50-$500 per piece x5-10pcs just seems really a good way to find out if the whole gig is gonna work out for me.

All points made have been well taken. The relegation of an all-in-one to QT duty later or 'tank jr. status' makes sense -- Hadn't thought of that.

Sorry to turn this into a noob orientation and guidance session. I know there is a dedicated forum for that on Reef Central. Was really just trying to get a feel for the people I'd run into in the area if I got into it...

 

[KMP]

kevin, didn't your wife talk to you about surfing fish porn

as discussed, i took the approach that dots suggests and have learned lots about the hobby in the process. the difference between you and i is that you've been doing fw for 15 yrs so you know you like fish and aren't scared of the maintenance.

so what will the nano do for you? give you a chance to learn about salt while staying w/in a reasonable budget. thereafter, when you are ready to go big, you can transplant the nano contents into the larger tank.

decisions, decisions - starts w/what do i want to put in the tank?

 

[kevin95695]

KMP! Fish porn is not a crime!

What do I want to put in the tank? About as much color, form, and movement diversity as I can safely and humanely cram in there. Which brings up a question: How do live sand, live rock, cleaning crew, corals, anenomes, etc. add into the bio-load equation?

 

[kevin95695]

Ummm, looking back on that last post, I feel I need to qualify a few things:

KMP knows that my wife calls aquatic websurfing and research "fish porn". I'm not that sick.

I stock tanks slow and light, I realize I'll have to do so to a higher degree in a reef setup -- Just would like to eventually have a beautiful box of candy at some point.

I'll take the bioload question to the noob forum on the main RC forum list.

Thanks!

 

[KMP]

bioload - that's a good question kevin. i've been told your fish should not exceed 1" per 5 gallons. live rock, corals, etc - i don't recall ever seeing that discussed and absent the expertise of these guys i'm no more valuable than the live rock itself. i just regergitate what i take in

that said, i won't begin to list what i have in my tank for fear i'll get yelled at but, am eager to see the answer.

 

[kevin95695]

I think I got this right, but from the reply I got on the main noob forum it sounds like the cleaning crew, sand, rock, corals, etc. have a generally neutral to positive impact on bioload.

 

[KMP]

whew! when you are ready to crank up your new tank i got some damsels for you





(just gotta figure out how to get the little fellas out and not dismantle the tank)

 

[kevin95695]

KMP, you're good people and thanks for all the fun and talk so far.

If you're serious about the damsels... I read a post somewheres, (maybe not around here) that someone was tryin' to lure a fish (FW/SW = irrelevant) out of it's hidey-hole and basically plopped a net in the tank every night at feedin' time and w/in 2 wks had the critter waitin' in the net when the goodies came down from above.

 

[kdblove_99]

I just switched from many years of FW last february.

I can't imagine ever going back. SW is more fun and also much more challenging oh yeah and alot and i mean alot more $$$

 

[kevin95695]

I hear ya!

I'm home from a recon run to 'Your Reef Shop' in Roseville and 'Coral Reef Shop' in Carmichael. IMO: I may only have FW experience, but I still have plenty of LFS experience. Really liked the "client" approach at CRS vs YR. Damn near felt over-serviced at CRS. Oh, and the shop is lined with tanks, with wet stuff ready to buy. Nice kids w/good customer service. On the other hand... @ YRS, gomer (confirmed as not the owner) conversation:

Me: "That tank @ the end -- Looks like bubble algae." (Seeing lots of what look like gaseous bubbles w/green base in a tank that was labeled both NFS and 25% sale)

Clerk: "Yeah. Prolly." ('Prolly' being a bad sign right there)

Me: "Yeesh, that's scary." (In a: "sorry, too bad" tone)

Clerk: "Well, everyone gets it eventually." (In an indignant sort of "F. U." tone)

So I start thinking... Yeah, maybe it's an issue, but you could'a said "It's a bummer -- but we're fixing it" etc. All-in-all (again from a FW only experience) I thought that a shop with a desire for return clientele would QT to avoid that stuff or at least been pragmatic about the reality of likely infection, rather than a "whatever dude" from the clerk. Anyway; I expect that the variables w/SW & reef ecology are much more complex so I gave it a moment's pause. But I realized the way it came across to me was still a defeatist sorta "I punched the clock, I'm gonna ring up yer stuff and get on with waiting for the clock to tick until I can leave." Not the enthusiasm I would expect from someone in so specialized an area with so many rabid hobbyists that might otherwise give up their lucrative careers to do something so fascinating if they thought they could make a living at it... I've seen mop-jockeys at McDonalds with more enthusiasm... Honest.

I own a business and for whatever reason just felt the guy was not someone I'd keep around long if it meant the difference between my success and failure.

Anyway... Trying to stay positive: The kids (came off fresh outta school, but not a knock -- just young) at Coral Reef Shop (CRS) were attentive, seemed to run a clean op, and lots of live inventory which appeared to be well cared for. I should've mentioned that I found out about them via this forum but spaced it... Sorry.

Don't know much about pricing in this area yet -- Which seemed expensive to me -- But hey, the rarity could've easily justified cost. Otherwise felt the shop was well done. Didn't see much in dry goods, tanks, etc. but didn't get the impression that was their market either.

Oddly, the website for YR was kickin'! but the ws for CRS was weak. Totally reverse in person.

Overall, would go to CRS again and would not likely trip to YR unless there was some killer rare specimen etc.

 

[kevin95695]

OK, that was harsh. Sorry.

I could make all kinds of excuses: Low blood sugar, just dealt with a work hassle on a day I planned to take off, it was past my bedtime, etc. but really... Ultimately I feel I had a poor customer service experience and am justified in saying something about it, but I admit I did go squirrel on that last post. Again, sorry.

 

[KMP]

i've frequented Your Reef several times and have not had a like experience; however, knowing you as i do kevin, something most definately must have been out of order for you to go sideways like that

regarding "Coral Reef Shop", I love that place. nice store, but more so, great owners. they're a great couple.

 

[mpoletti]

About pricing in the area- the better and more colorful pieces will always cost a little more because they are what people want ti the reef. I travel to all the fish store in the local area and YR is still my fav. O st has its days and since it is so close to my house, I stop by often. I can not get myself to pay more than any other store so Capitol is off my list. For that same reason, I have stayed away from the CRS. I believe in making money, believe me I am in sales, but I also believe in comparing prices to the local area market and not go 20% above the norm. I love the different experiences that I get from each haven of salt critters, as long as I remember that each one has its ups and down. Exotic gets some really nice things in from time to time, but they are still new. I have made purchases at all of the above and aqualife as well, but as I have continued in my venture, I know what I like and what I want. I hope you find the same enjoyment as the rest of us. My wife is out of town today, so I am going to the Bay to check out some of the big boys.

 

[KMP]

marko, do you have a listing of stores you are going to in the bay area? i'd like to make that run one day also.