responsible reefing my 2 cents

duncaholic

New member
IMO there are only 2 ways in which this hobby has a negative impact on the environment.

1. Harvesting of any renewable resource must be done in a sustainable way in order to keep the resource renewable. My problem is that no matter how much I poke and prod, most of the LFS I go to can't tell me much of anything about how the animals I'm purchasing were obtained. I seriously doubt that ornamental collecting could have huge negative consequences across the board, but I don't know for sure.

What I do know something about is the local commercial fisheries. The bio-mass I see every week at my local fishmonger dwarfs the bio mass of the largest LFS in my city. And that's just the beginning, there are 50X more stores that sell wild caught seafood than ornamental fish and corals here. Also I know from first hand experience that most of what is caught here locally is exported, so the bio-mass in all the local stores is just a fraction of what's taken from the ocean here every day.

I know that this isn't a fair comparison because of the limited habitat of reef inhabitants, but the lessons learned from over fishing here still apply. For all their faults, the Florida division of fish and wildlife has set a high standard for protecting threatened species and maintaining the renew-ability of our local fisheries. size and bag limits work. Sensible regulation of any fishery is the only way to ensure long term viability.

Thus, as a hobbyist, I think the single most important thing that we could do...if we were united in the effort... is demand that all suppliers of wild caught specimens be held accountable for the manner in which they conduct their collection activities. the only way we could accomplish this is by using our collective purchasing power to reward responsible collectors and boycott collectors using destructive and/or un-sustainable practices.

2. Energy consumption of our systems. We as a community probably do more damage to our own environment by the massive amount of energy we consume to keep our reefs alive than any other single activity. A typical 125g MH mixed reef will consume somewhere between 10 kWh on the low end and up to 25kwh on the high end per day. Since almost all of use use municipal power supplies, think about all the pollution our reefs indirectly create. Apart from people new to the hobby(as we all made lots of deadly mistakes early on), how many fish/corals does an average reefer 3 years into the hobby purchase each year? Not too many I don't think. But that same reefer still consumes (with the sort of tank listed above) some 3640 kWh to 9100 kwh per year. Food for thought.

As for chemicals and supplements, They have helped extend the life expectancy for humans, and used properly do so for our pets as well.

Just my 2 cents.....

-Mitch
 
Thus, as a hobbyist, I think the single most important thing that we could do...if we were united in the effort... is demand that all suppliers of wild caught specimens be held accountable for the manner in which they conduct their collection activities. the only way we could accomplish this is by using our collective purchasing power to reward responsible collectors and boycott collectors using destructive and/or un-sustainable practices.

I think this has happened on a limited basis in recent years. The avoidance of Phillipines collected specimens because of the cyanide use there comes to mind.
 
I seriously doubt that ornamental collecting could have huge negative consequences across the board, but I don't know for sure.

It has huge consequences, in a lot of different areas of the world and in a lot of different ways. I'm not going to argue that other issues are a more acute threat (local pollution, fertilizer run-off, etc), but ornamental collection is a big issue, especially, as noted above, in areas where cyanide collection is used.

There are also problems that you see like with Banggai cardinals, which were introduced to more convenient collecting locations, so now they're competing with local fish.
 
You know I had no idea that someone had introduced the Bangaii into non-native waters. That's clearly something I had never even considered. From experience here in Florida with the lion fish and having read extensively on other invasive species, this is something I should have thought about. Florida is loaded with all kinds of invasive species, and they have impacted our evironment/lives in ways that would have been impossible to predict. Thanks for letting me know! Even though the damage may already have been done, I will champion the cause of purchasing CB Bangaiis exclusively here. Also I will dust off the old books and clean out a few old tanks, and try raising the young from a pair of Bangaiis I have that having been spawning regularly. Maybe if I give them away at local fish clubs, I can get the word out!!

I have heard of collectors using cyanide. This is exactly the kind of thing I meant by detructive collecting. I had heard that this practise had been largley curtailed, but once again me problem is that I just don't know. I am the kind of person who is willing to pay a little more for responsibly collected animals, and to buy CB whenever possible. My problem is I haven't found any way to get any sort of reliable provenance on any wild caught livestock. Any suggestions?

-Mitch
 
Also I will dust off the old books and clean out a few old tanks, and try raising the young from a pair of Bangaiis I have that having been spawning regularly. Maybe if I give them away at local fish clubs, I can get the word out!!

We raised a bunch without any effort at all. We just left them in the tank and let natural survival take over. :D

I have heard of collectors using cyanide. This is exactly the kind of thing I meant by detructive collecting. I had heard that this practise had been largley curtailed, but once again me problem is that I just don't know.

It's less than it used to be, but, unfortunately, it's still too prevalent.

I am the kind of person who is willing to pay a little more for responsibly collected animals, and to buy CB whenever possible. My problem is I haven't found any way to get any sort of reliable provenance on any wild caught livestock. Any suggestions?

It often really hard to find really find reliable info on wild-caught fish. I wish it weren't.
 
The interesting thing with the Bangai's, their populations in their limited native range have been drastically impacted by collection for the trade. At the same time, they've been introduced in areas that are much closer to the export cities in a deliberate attempt to establish close by populations.

With cyanide, unless you know which collection/export station (and trust them) out of the Phillipines or Indo, it is highly suspect has cyanide caught. Particularly angels, groupers, triggers, butterflies, and tangs. The spread of cyanide to Indo is also interesting. When we were first becoming aware of cyanide use in the Philippines, it wasn't in widespread use in Indo. Market pressures caused a shift in buying to Indo, so Philipino collectors and exporters sent the fish to Indo for export as "net" caught fish. Along with that came the introduction of cyanide to Indo. Now cyanide use is possibly more prevalent in Indo. The best places to obtain fish caught without cyanide are Fiji, Tonga, Hawaii, Red Sea, Caribbean, Florida, and possibly Sri Lanka.
 
I think this has happened on a limited basis in recent years. The avoidance of Phillipines collected specimens because of the cyanide use there comes to mind.

Hi, this is my very first post...
I am from the Philippines and a diver,there were times that I tried to catch pretty fishes for my tank, I,ve just proven to popular LFS here that it can be done without harming their habitat..But for sure no any LFS would admit their LS are gathered in destructive way..I don't know about that impression about LS coming from the Philippines alone are by cyanide..How can we be sure that other countries are exporting cyanide-free LS'?..Same as what I have noticed with our local LFS..Nobody would admit..but anyway, I'm in serious battle when it comes to destructive way of gathering LS'.. So far I am enjoying whatever LS which are available in our soroundings.. With all those zoas in my garden and fishes, they were all caught and taken cared of as if I bought them like you guys do..Happy Reefing to all!
 
I think one of the biggest impacts we can have as hobbyists is to demand captive raised livestock. The amount of different generic clownfish species that get imported is insane, I've seen hundreds of clownfish a week die off at wholesalers, the majority with brook. Same with Banghaii's, pseudochromis, neon blue gobys and tons of others that I'm forgetting. Wholesalers sell these because it's cheaper to import them with huge losses than to buy healthy ones locally, but either way they only get imported because hobbyists buy them.

If everyone just went to their LFS and said "I'm boycotting you if you stock wild caught clownfish and banghai cardinals," the repercussions on the entire industry would be huge, it would uproot the entire business model. There's a giant captive raised fish industry in this country that's just waiting to be woken up, you wouldn't believe how many fish breeders raise only 1/4 or less of what they could if there was enough demand, and imagine how hard people would work to breed new fish species if they knew the market was headed in that direction. Within a couple of years the different species of captive bred fish would easily double.

That's the beauty of the hobby, realistically it's small enough that it wouldn't take a large amount of people to make huge changes across the board, but unfortunately at the moment we don't have a way to organize and get us all on the same page.
 
The amount of different generic clownfish species that get imported is insane, I've seen hundreds of clownfish a week die off at wholesalers, the majority with brook. Same with Banghaii's, pseudochromis, neon blue gobys and tons of others that I'm forgetting. Wholesalers sell these because it's cheaper to import them with huge losses than to buy healthy ones locally, but either way they only get imported because hobbyists buy them.

The real shame is that biggest reason these cheap fish arrive in such bad shape is that they are not only cheap, but treated very cheaply in order to keep the price cheap. When Banggai Cardinals wholesaled for $25 (and even much more early on) they arrived in great shape and were bullet proof. Now they can bought on sale in large quantity for under $4 wholesale, and most all will die within a few weeks. What changed, they went from treating the fish with care from the point of collection all the way to the retailer to treating like a cheap commodity and packing them in mass quantity per bag. Same with Damsels and Clowns. Used be able order wild caught and expect high survival rates, now due to cutting corners in handling and shipping practices, one gets 90% or higher mortality rates :( Even if the fish isn't cyanide caught. It isn't that they can't be sustainably caught and ethically shipped, it's that it's cheaper not to.

With aquacultured, the price is higher and they are treated better...which also keeps the price higher. Ultimately makes for a better investment in terms of quality when compared to the state of many wild caught imports. From an environmental standpoint, aquaculture is not without it's own problems when you examine the resources used. Just think about things like energy consumption, fisheries issues with fish meal, crab meal and other marine based ingredients in the feeds, and so on.
 
I didn't know it was like that back in the day, it's even worse to know they could be coming in healthy but they're all coming in and crapping out by someone's choices :(

+1 on the aquaculture issues, imo though it's the lesser of two evils that has a lot of possibilities for improvement if a good enough market emerges. I think the captive bred industry can do some great things in the future if it's given the opportunity, something's gotta give since there are some fish collection areas that are really not doing well.
 
Question for those more experienced: I am familiar with ORA...what other wholesalers should I be on the lookout for as providers of tank-bred specimens?

I am going to be buying my first fish within the next few weeks and I'd like to ask the right questions when I hit the lfs.
 
Pro Aquatix is really the only other large supplier of cultured fish. Some areas also have small individual "basement" breeders that supply some shops, generally clowns and Banggai's.
 
Hi, this is my very first post...
I am from the Philippines and a diver,there were times that I tried to catch pretty fishes for my tank, I,ve just proven to popular LFS here that it can be done without harming their habitat..But for sure no any LFS would admit their LS are gathered in destructive way..I don't know about that impression about LS coming from the Philippines alone are by cyanide..How can we be sure that other countries are exporting cyanide-free LS'?..Same as what I have noticed with our local LFS..Nobody would admit..but anyway, I'm in serious battle when it comes to destructive way of gathering LS'.. So far I am enjoying whatever LS which are available in our soroundings.. With all those zoas in my garden and fishes, they were all caught and taken cared of as if I bought them like you guys do..Happy Reefing to all!

[welcome]

Got to be nice catching your own :thumbsup:
 
Hi, this is my very first post...
I am from the Philippines and a diver,there were times that I tried to catch pretty fishes for my tank, I,ve just proven to popular LFS here that it can be done without harming their habitat..But for sure no any LFS would admit their LS are gathered in destructive way..I don't know about that impression about LS coming from the Philippines alone are by cyanide..How can we be sure that other countries are exporting cyanide-free LS'?..Same as what I have noticed with our local LFS..Nobody would admit..but anyway, I'm in serious battle when it comes to destructive way of gathering LS'.. So far I am enjoying whatever LS which are available in our soroundings.. With all those zoas in my garden and fishes, they were all caught and taken cared of as if I bought them like you guys do..Happy Reefing to all!

I agree with you, it is impossible to know, and the information is rarely verifiable. I will say good on you for doing the right thing. I hope we get to see your tank someday, it must be very rewarding to be enjoying specimens that were self caught in a responsible manner!
 
2. Energy consumption of our systems. We as a community probably do more damage to our own environment by the massive amount of energy we consume to keep our reefs alive than any other single activity. A typical 125g MH mixed reef will consume somewhere between 10 kWh on the low end and up to 25kwh on the high end per day. Since almost all of use use municipal power supplies, think about all the pollution our reefs indirectly create. Apart from people new to the hobby(as we all made lots of deadly mistakes early on), how many fish/corals does an average reefer 3 years into the hobby purchase each year? Not too many I don't think. But that same reefer still consumes (with the sort of tank listed above) some 3640 kWh to 9100 kwh per year. Food for thought.


-Mitch

I would agree with this. As much as I am opposed to wild caught fish, I don't like wild caught fish simply because I don't like seeing animals forced to live in very unnatural (unnatural depends on the animal of course, a powder blue tang is much less at home in an aquarium than a Dottyback is) environments for our amusement. This is one area where the FW side of the hobby is just as bad as the saltwater side.

However you are right - big reefs with big equipment loads, especially poorly thought out equipment, do far more damage to the environment as a whole, including reefs through their massive carbon emissions then through damaging the reef to provide LR and livestock.

My reef is bad enough at 2.8 kW/hr per day. Not tested through a kill-a-watt, just by adding up wattages and times:

2x24 t5ho: 10 hrs/day
2x24 t5ho: 8 hrs/day

900 watt hours right there.

50 watts of continuous pumping.

1200 watt hours

16 hours a day of 2x23w lights for the algae scrubber

700 watt hours

Granted, I once had a very stupid planted tank setup that actually used more energy than this.
 
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